Coat pocket Flaps - angle and size ?

[Rowly]

Hi, My tailor seems to have one angle for slanted pockets, and one size for length and depth of flaps. I noticed that many tailors suggest slightly slanted pockets. From pics I have seen, and from S.R. window displays... some pockets seem to be oversized for effect, ( perhaps where the texture or pattern of the cloth requires it ) .. and this can look very pleasing. Some high end rtw. seem to have copied this detail also. Are there any rules of thumb for this regarding angles and size?.....do you have preferences, or just leave it to the tailor? I assume body proportion will have a bearing on this.... I am a regular 5'10...and slim....thanks?

[TTO]

Bear in mind I'm a novice but my understanding is that the more rakish the angle of pockets the more sporty and casual the suit or coat. A very slight angle is acceptable on the most smart of city suits where as formal clothes have straight pockets and no flaps. As to the size of pocket flaps, surely these should be made in proportion to a coats lapels. Lapels should be of a width and shape to best flatter you, so if you are broad then a wider lapel and consequently deeper pocket flaps are more flattering. Others with a better understanding could offer more insite but I think this is a good starting point. I would have thought discussing this with your tailor would help you if you have specific style you like and feel is appropriate for your commission. Hope this helps.
-T

[alden]

Rowly

You just don't want to be in a situation where the size or angle of the pockets call attention to themselves and disrupt the harmonious image (the organic whole.) "Slightly" angled pockets of normal size can be very handsome on sporting coats or overcoats. But straight flaps look even better.

Cheers

Michael Alden

[Rowly]

"Slightly" angled pockets of normal size can be very handsome

Thanks Michael, I wonder can the pockets be less than normal size, which would also..

call attention to themselves and disrupt the harmonious image (the organic whole.)

... I just wondered if there is a size which is considered normal? ... and is there a norm for slightly slanted in terms of angle? Finally , would you always suggest straight pocket flaps for a suit....this mentoring is very helpful.....thanks, Rowly.

[alden]

would you always suggest straight pocket flaps for a suit.

I have one suit with slightly slanted pockets (5 degrees north of the horizon), its a heavyweight tweedy country suit. The rest have straight flaps.

[Rowly]

I have one suit with slightly slanted pockets (5 degrees north of the horizon)

Inspired by Cary Grant in "North by North West", I presume?
Thanks for that...I will be visiting my tailor on wednesday and will be joining the whole fleece fraternity ( in dark grey ). I will insist on straight pockets ! Is a ticket pocket ok, if it's straight?
thanks again, Rowly

[alden]

Is a ticket pocket ok, if it's straight?

At 5'10" you are tall enough to wear a TP on your coat if you find it useful. I don't use them myself, but many men like them.

Michael

[Rowly]

I took the trouble to check all of my RTW jackets ranging from Gieves, Ede, Crombie, Austin Reed signature, Cordings, Daks etc. I am a standard 5'10'', 38 r. All look well proportioned on me, and I assume they have been designed to achieve a pleasing aesthetic and to allude to that of the classic English tailored look, which they do. The pockets are so much smaller on my bespoke suits that , although they fit very well, seem to have a large expanse of cloth with not enough to break it up ( a bit like a big face with fine eye brows and a small nose and mouth). At first, I thought this to be a bespoke feature, as it bears a close resemblance to my Father's bespoke suits of 30 yrs ago. I thought of it to be a bit like the Rolls Silver Shadow, where the bulk of the car is contrasted with slim door handles and a thin steering wheel, to create a classy quirkiness. The suits I have had made to date are still nice....but going forward, I want the proportions to be correct. Please consider these comparisons.....
My tailor
All breast pockets 4''x1&1/8''
All rtw
4&1/4''x1&1/8''

Tailor's Flaps 5&1/2'' to 5&3/4''x2'' ( inc jetting) ie actual flap 1&7/8''

Rtw flaps 6&1/4''x2&1/4''( inc jetting) ie 2&1/8'' actual flap ( odd jkts a bit wider )
Some db a bit deeper for effect ie 2&3/8'' ( inc jetting) ie.2&1/4'' flap showing....

Although these sizes seem small, the difference in proportion is quite a lot....My tailor is a nice man and his workmanship is excellent. I have been on a learning curve, perfecting my pattern over the last few suits.I will be seeing him on wednesday with a view to placing a commission, and I'm sure he will make the details in any way I like. Can anyone advise me on what is normal practice for pocket sizes and breast pockets....if I get this nailed then I will be on a roll to indulge myself more freely in the pleasures of bespoke....thanks again, Rowly

[Frog in Suit]

Why not simply bring up the issue with him, and ask him what he thinks, assuming you trust his judgement? He may have a “standard” pocket size for “standard” size customers; he may be willing to alter it if asked, but I would ask him first whether he thinks it would look good. Paul Munday (Meyer & Mortimer) once showed me a coat he was making for a short customer, and pointed out that, in that case, the vertical dimension of the pocket flaps had been reduced, in order to make the wearer seem taller.
I do not like slanted pockets, even on tweed suits, although one of my two has them. I know Nicholas Storey, who wrote the excellent History of Men’s Fashion, and is a member here, would disagree…

Frog in Suit

[storeynicholas]

Hee hee, as soon as I saw that you'd posted, I knew what was coming, FiS! I do like gently sloping pockets but only on town or country suits or over coats I would not have them on a dinner jacket. I find that the ticket pocket is useful for all kinds of actual tickets, a couple of notes, maybe a key.
NJS

[Rowly]

Why not simply bring up the issue with him, and ask him what he thinks, assuming you trust his judgement?

I will ask him, and I know he will want to leave me happy. I just wanted to get some background info and other experiences first.

He may have a “standard” pocket size for “standard” size customers;

I think this is the case, and I am a very avg. standard size man....., which made me wonder are his sizes smaller than, " the norm ", if there is one... a received knowledge of the most flattering size for my standard shape? ..... that's what I'm trying to research.

I do like gently sloping pockets but only on town or country suits

Yes... and What are the differences between a sloping and a gently sloping pocket, in technical terms? In a recent T.V. programme, this was touched on by Andrew Ramroop, but no details given.... see 7.0 mins in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQaR0L0z ... re=related

I suppose I am trying to ascertain the most pleasing dimensions and angles for slanted and straight pockets, and slightly slanted pockets from the best tailors, who really understand the importance of such details in achieving that extra Je ne sais quoi of understated style. thanks......

[Costi]

Perhaps it would be easier and more practical to show your tailor what you would like in terms of a "slight" slope, rather than put it in radians. Michael's coat in this movie http://dresswithstyle.com/2009/11/23/be ... at-styles/ , for instance, has what I would call "gently" sloping pockets. Take a still from it to your tailor.
Also, as far as the size of the flaps is concerned, ask for them to be "bigger", explaining your sensation that they seem lost on the expanse of cloth covering your sides. You could ask for a pair of mock flaps on your first fitting, so you may get an idea of how the tailor interprets "deeper" or "bigger". Centimeters in the abstract are of little use in these cases. Your instrument is your eyes; the measuring tape is the tailor's instrument and it's his business to translate your wishes into numbers.

[Rowly]

You could ask for a pair of mock flaps on your first fitting

Costi, this is an excellent idea, and thanks for the link to Alden's hat review. I was with a friend who admired my suit greatly, and she saw no problem with the pocket proportions. It is definitely different from all my rtw suits, and the one's I've seen portrayed here...but perhaps this is to my advantage, and again,....

Your instrument is your eyes; the measuring tape is the tailor's instrument

.. it took a while to get used to seeing myself showing cuff etc. and now I love the look. I will discuss this all with my tailor and see what happens, but if things remain the same... I will still be very happy. Although, I do enjoy getting into the nitty gritty of the pleasures of bespoke and learning as much as possible...thanks again!, Rowly

[Rowly]

I have since visited my tailor, and we have had a lengthy discussion. He assured me that the pocket sizes he used for me were in proportion to my body size, and as this was a fine mohair suit, he felt that a flap of 1& 3/4'' after the jetting gave a good look. He also said that the pocket width was usually between 5&1/2'' and 6''.....he likes to have it 1/2'' in front of the inside dart in the coat...and the rear 1'' behind the outside dart. We also agreed that if the cloth had more heft, or for a bolder pattern, or perhaps a flannel...the flaps could be deepened to 2'', which he considered to be a maximum. As for slants, we tried different angles, as Costi advised, and settled on 3/4'' above the horizontal on the front side...and 3/4'' below the horizontal on the rear. Any less of a slant would be nondescript and could pass for a badly made straight pocket. I am happy with the outcome and with his attention and desire to leave me satisfied. I hope this might be useful to others with the same concerns...and thanks to all again for the much appreciated feedback..Rowly.