What is the size of the biggest SR houses today?

[andreyb]

Gentlemen,

Today I flipped through the Poole's booklet I have, and one phrase catched my attention: "By the early 1900s, Henry Poole was the largest establishment of its type in the world, employing 300 tailors and cutters."

300 tailors... Unbelievable!

Probably today's biggest SR houses are much smaller... But still, how many paid employees they have? How many outworkers? Gents, please share if know this. It is not a vitally important question for me -- just my curiosity...

Andrey

[Leonard Logsdail]

Let's think. 1990 was one year before I moved to the US and the beginning of an economic recession. For Pooles to have 300 tailors would probably mean they were producing around 200 suits per week. i would guess that would not be far from the total output of SR at that time.

I'm somewhat surprised by this statement as Angus Cundy is known for his over-the-top comments. Are you sure you read it correctly? Perhaps it was meant to say 30 tailors which would be more to the truth.

Leonard

[andreyb]

Sorry, Leonard... my typo. Just corrected it -- replaced 1990s with 1900s.

Andrey

[Guest]

Caraceni in Milan has about 40 tailors today. I believe that is the biggest bespoke shop in Italy.

[manton]

I think A&S is the biggest on the Row today, in terms of sales. Poole's is second. I have no idea how many tailors each employs. But don't they both -- like all SR houses -- work more with contract tailors than in-house tailors?

[Guest]

I dont know about SR, I know for sure that Caraceni and Rubinacci do everything in-house. (and they do not own any sewing machine ...).

[mathew]

Giona, are you referring to A. Caraceni or Ferdinando Caraceni?

[Thomas I. Kim]

.

[mathew]

Even bigger houses probably won't have 3-4 cutters, no? I think that cutters get to work really early and have most of their cutting work done before normal business hours. Of course there is the matter of doing fittings.

[Collarmelton]

Some of you may recall a recent brouhaha about Kingly Street outworkers started by a London tailor renowned for digging himself into a hole and pulling the dirt in on top of himself. I was rather curious about this and asked Philip Parker, my cutter at Poole, how many tailors Poole has on its SR premises and how many outworkers in Kingly Street it uses. He said that the number on site at the Savile Row house varies. He also said that everyone, including Poole, uses outworkers to do specific piecework, some of the best of whom share premises in Kingly Street and other nearby locations, because that is how the industry is arranged. Poole also trains young tailors on its premises, since -- as Leonard remarked the other week, and which is echoed by Poole's senior cutters -- an impending future scarcity of well-trained, talented tailors is a perpetual source of worry for the SR houses.

[Guest]

Mathew,

I'm speaking of the one and only "real" Caraceni in Milano, Mario Caraceni.

[Mark Seitelman]

I have heard that some of the houses share the services of so-called out-workers who work out of free-standing workshops, such as the famous Kingly Street, as well as their homes. This is especially so for very skilled workers in low supply, such as vestmakers.

A piece of pure anecdotal evidence: I have vests from Davies & Sons, and I had an opportunity to inspect a vest from Fallan & Harvey. With the exception of the "signature" inside linings of each house (bengal stripe for Davies and a purple and cream for Fallan), the vests are totally identical in every detail and stitch as well as design. You cannot say the same when comparing vests between Oxxford and Martin Greenfield. Therefore, did both firms use the same vestmaker? Probably yes.

[Mark Seitelman]

In response to the initial question:

Since "Savile Row" is a cottage industry I believe that it will be hard to get a definitive number of employees at the bigger houses.

Many businesses (not only tailors) puff about their employment rolls and include independent contractors or whatever (out-workers, consultants, of counsel, etc.) in the employment numbers to give the impression of greater size, stability, and success.

According to Flusser's most recent book, Henry Poole is the largest Row tailor. The recent history of Henry Poole had a group picture of of its employees in front of the shop. I believe that they numbered 30.

In comparison, Oxxford claims that it has about 200 tailors employed, and it operates as a true factory/workshop with all operations under one roof. In addition to the tailors are executive, sales, clerical, and shipping staff. Martin Greenfield claims 160 employees.

[manton]

According to Flusser's most recent book, Henry Poole is the largest Row tailor. The recent history of Henry Poole had a group picture of of its employees in front of the shop. I believe that they numbered 30.

Small correction: you must mean Style and the Man, which is not Flusser's most recent book.

I have been told by numerous people -- including competitors -- that A&S has the largest "business" on the Row, meaning the largest volume of sales. Whether that translates to the largest in-house staff, I could not say.

Jona: Is it really true that Caraceni has no sewing machines? The even do trouser side seams by hand?

[Guest]

Yes, Manton, everything. Every single stich in the suit. Rubinacci the same ... and he is opening in London too.

Prices are rated accordingly ...