Double breasted suits and formality

[carl browne]

Oh, and I forgot to mention: many of these prosperous men have, at the the back of their minds, the vague fear that becaused they're dressed that way, THEY MIGHT ACTUALLY BE TAKEN FOR INDIGENT PANHANDLERS. They take out insurance by wearing enormous gold watches, preferably encrusted with precious stones. They also see to it that their wives are well turned out. It's extremely amusing to see them together: the man in a distressed under-shirt, ripped jeans, flip-flops, and a three pound Rolex President with pave diamond face, the woman looking like the Duchess of Windsor in Chanel haute couture.

Sometimes they express some approval for the way I'm turned out (their wives almost always do) but they scoff when they find out I've been having my things made--too expensive, it seems. They forget that a gold Rolex costs far more than a SR wardrobe.

Gentlemen, forgive the rant. I'm completely off subject here, but can't bring myself to delete this post.

C

[carl browne]

JMB

You are quite right. But this place offers so many other wonderful things, that I'm loath to clear out.

[Costi]

No no no, don't delete a line, your scalpel is cutting perfectly fine. This is the extreme manifestation of the type of psychology that brought about the demise of elegance: men who think of themselves too important to give any thought to how they look. Next thing they will defecate in public with a selected audience, like Louis XIV. I envy them for one thing, though: they have no sense of ridicule.

[carl browne]

Costi: you are very kind, but I warn you not to encourage me--I can go on like this for quite a while. . . .

[carl browne]

And JMB:

As for moving to more civilized environs: I fear that's a little like moving to the stern of the Titanic. It won't prevent the dunking, only delay it a little while.

[storeynicholas]

Carl - I fear that, except for certain very conservative places, you are right and there it is! Nothing wrong with a rant about it; I too have had my moments. If more people were more vocal about the tee shirt dress code allowed in what were 'smart' places, maybe the sinking would be delayed.
NJS

[Jordan Marc]

Gentlemen:

To paraphrase the warning about lying down with pigs ... If you persist in muzzling up to the trouph with these grubby oinkers, sooner or later you will neither care how you look nor give a damn about expelling
methane from either end. Refinement is not to be confused with the stench of refineries.

JMB

[Costi]

They do a great job of making us feel that we live in their world. If we can live like we don't without exaggerating to the opposite extreme or turning ourselves into reactionary snobs, then we may win our individual battles. We don't have another plannet to go to (besides, we'd feel rather lonely) and it would spoil the fun to live at war (even just in our minds and hearts) with 99% of the world. Most know no better, so it is rather pointless to expect anything else: they instinctively imitate and blend in and buy what the stores offer and wear what the media promote. It makes them no less valuable as humans and we should take style out of the equation when judging them, if we are to be fair. But then there is the category of those who know and can do better, but they feel above such triviality as dressing decently; however, they don't find it trivial enough to populate elegant places and they love an audience for their show - indifference kills them.

[alden]

Successful businessmen are rarely Renaissance men. To the contrary, they have to have an extreme level of focus and concentration to succeed. The do not venture into affairs they cannot win at, they do not even do battle in those places. They are risk takers but if they take any risk, it is so calculated as to not resemble risk at all. And this for the fact that the risk is part of the game they know and play well in.

I think these men are not so much flouting convention as much as they are insecure to try to do something that is outside of their protected and safe sphere. They probably know they will look ridiculous if they try to dress, and taking a risk in matters one does not know is considered by them foolish. So they affect to not be interested at all.

The problem is with the restaurant and not these men. Let the direction impose a dress code and these men would have to conform to it. And if the risk of losing a few high rollers makes the restaurant owners cower, it means they have neither respect for themselves or the vast majority of their patrons. Vote with your feet, go elsewhere. Let the place become a small private club for the few and the owners will realize the fragility of their business decision.

The courage to say “No” to these kinds of men might actually have a positive effect on them. Not being allowed entry to a place would be quite an affront to their prides. It might even make the place seem interesting and attractive to them….

[Scot]

Ah well, one still needs a jacket in the cocktail bar at the Stafford, and at Wilton's.

[Costi]

Michael, you took the analysis one step further than me: at the origin of this behaviour is a sense of insecurity. And it's a positive approach, in the sense that the subject is presumed willing to improve and the possibility is there if he finds a way to learn a new game and gain some confidence. These are decent people who, as you write, are focused on their business (and very well they do) and don't give dress much thought beyond being clean and comfortable. But those I have a problem with are the stubborn: those who know better, can do better but refuse to.
Depending on where one lives, this majority / minority balance may be rather delicate...

[Simon A]

Perhaps one reason for the survival of private clubs in the cities is that there are still many people who enjoy dining while properly dressed (which in many clubs may be a suit and tie during the week, and a sports jacket and tie on weekends.) It is hardly onerous to meet this standard, and the uniformity of dress means that one can focus one's attention on good food and company, instead of worrying about whether one is overdressed, or grinding one's teeth at the turnout of The Sopranos at the next table. Also, no wretched mobile phones to disturb one's digestion

It is not so common to see a high buttoning point on DB jackets these days but it can look very good, and is quite practical on jackets worn in winter I think. I imagine the average man on the street would consider DB more formal than SB; perhaps this is because cheap RTW suits use the absolute bare minimum of cloth, and so the designers steer towards the SB to save on textile cost. The original discrepancy in formality between DB and SB may not be known to them.

[carl browne]

Michael: the insecurity comment is apt. Could it also be resentment? In the 1950s and 1960s the Ivy league stopped accepting applicants on the basis of legacies, connections, and social standing, and began to accept on merit only. Scions of old families, the upper middle class--the children of the people who had been running America since the beginning were out. Working class people were in, provided they had the intelligence. This is all to the good: it has made the country a meritocracy. However, if you are the enormously successful son of a construction worker, the last thing you are going to want to do is to ape the habits and conventions of the class of people you have replaced.

[Milo]

They also see to it that their wives are well turned out. It's extremely amusing to see them together: the man in a distressed under-shirt, ripped jeans, flip-flops, and a three pound Rolex President with pave diamond face, the woman looking like the Duchess of Windsor in Chanel haute couture.

C

Spot on. To me, this mechanism is one of the big mysteries of life.
Milo

[couch]

Successful businessmen are rarely Renaissance men. To the contrary, they have to have an extreme level of focus and concentration to succeed. They do not venture into affairs they cannot win at, they do not even do battle in those places. They are risk takers but if they take any risk, it is so calculated as to not resemble risk at all. And this for the fact that the risk is part of the game they know and play well in.

Michael, this is one of the shrewdest of your many wise observations.

As to the sense of dressing appropriately being a rear-guard action, I much prefer to think of it as contemporary nonconformity, and creative at that. There is something pleasing about not treating one's dress as a billboard for one's political or cultural views, about preserving some independence of action and ability to surprise people. Just look at J. M. Keynes!

As Flaubert reportedly enjoined, "Live like a good bourgeois and think like a demigod."