Savile Row Tailors, Pricing and their House Style

[Costi]

Welcome to the Lounge, Clemens! If you have the time and patience (and pleasure) to read through the archives you will find many threads discussing SR tailoring houses, as well as containing valuable advice for bespoke novices (the latter being far more important than an encyclopedia of SR tailors, in my opinion). However, nothing can replace your personal research - visit the houses, see some garments, try on a few, discuss with the people there, ask about the prices and see what you like in the end. It really has to be your choice, not somebody else's recommendation. Whatever is meant by "house style" is easily recognizable from the shop windows and websites of most tailoring houses, but a good tailor can make any style that you like.
Avoid getting indoctrinated with others' preconceived ideas and cliches about tailoring houses and their "styles" - they will spoil your pleasure of discovery and create false expectations. Keep an open eye and open mind and enjoy exploring instead!

[S. Gillette]

Welcome, Clemens!

As far as my personal experience goes, I can say that most tailors will let you decide basically anytthing concerning your suit (it will be yours, after all), from the button and lining to the lapel shape, amount of padding, wadding and canvas and so forth if you ask for it. However, especially for a novice, I would recommend the following: You will have to decide on a cloth and basic shape, mabye lining and buttons. But apart from that, be ready to leave decisions to the cutter/tailor. There are many men who fall to the idea of controlling "every" detail in their suit, which, of course, is impossible. There are always aspects they will not think about and thus leave to the tailor. Of course, if you are interested in technical things about your suit, details, possibilities: by any means, ask the cutter about it, be it only out of curiousity! I have made the experience that most of them enjoy talking a bit about their work (which they hopefully love), their ideas about style and fit, even their "little secrets".

Also, you may want to visit a few ateliers before going one step ahead and actually ordering anything, just to explore the various approaches to service, etc. I have found the relation between cutter and client to be as important as the resulting garment, for only a cutter whose thinking appeals to you can deliver what you'd consider your suit.

All the best of luck for your first foray into the bespoke world! I hope you will enjoy every bit of it!

[Costi]

I was a bit confused after reading a Thread on the forum in which someone said that you don't have much control at Anderson and Sheppard which got me a bit frightened!

That's what I meant when I advised you to

Avoid getting indoctrinated with others' preconceived ideas and cliches about tailoring houses and their "styles" - they will spoil your pleasure of discovery and create false expectations. Keep an open eye and open mind and enjoy exploring instead!

Good advice from S. Gilette:

Also, you may want to visit a few ateliers before going one step ahead and actually ordering anything, just to explore the various approaches to service, etc. I have found the relation between cutter and client to be as important as the resulting garment, for only a cutter whose thinking appeals to you can deliver what you'd consider your suit.

Tailoring is a PERSONAL service, so the PERSONAL relationship is important, not the "brand".

[jlazarow]

Costi is absolutely right! Tailoring is PERSONAL!! The relationship you will have with your cutter makes all the difference in the world. While I have used a few tailors, the best comes from the relationship I have, where I count the cutter as a friend. Then when it comes time to choosing a cut, fabric, or style, he can truly advise and guide me. Sometime I stop into his shop just to chat. Sometimes a year goes by before I order anything... but the relationship is for LIFE!

So go and explore, meet different cutters, see if they can be your friend, mentor, and advisor. And part of the fun is meeting different tailors and getting involved in the industry!

I was a bit confused after reading a Thread on the forum in which someone said that you don't have much control at Anderson and Sheppard which got me a bit frightened!

That's what I meant when I advised you to

Avoid getting indoctrinated with others' preconceived ideas and cliches about tailoring houses and their "styles" - they will spoil your pleasure of discovery and create false expectations. Keep an open eye and open mind and enjoy exploring instead!

Good advice from S. Gilette:

Also, you may want to visit a few ateliers before going one step ahead and actually ordering anything, just to explore the various approaches to service, etc. I have found the relation between cutter and client to be as important as the resulting garment, for only a cutter whose thinking appeals to you can deliver what you'd consider your suit.

Tailoring is a PERSONAL service, so the PERSONAL relationship is important, not the "brand".

[A.Hacking]

Clemens.
I ordered my first suit from Savile Row in January. Whilst the shops present an intimidating front they want your business. The secret I found was to visit at a quiet time of the day - don't go at lunchtime. I went first to Norton & Sons because the owner, Patrick Grant, is quite a high profile guy and I like the way he dresses. He was happy to sit down for 40 minutes with me and talk me through the entire process form commissioning to delivery as well as pricing and after sales service. We also looked at some pieces in production and there were completed items on display. I was so impressed with that level of service that I didn't visit anywhere else but placed on order when I next had the chance.
There was plenty of time during the ordering process to select cloth and discuss every aspect of the suit with the sales team and the cutter.
Whilst I didn't visit others in the Row I'm sure the experience will be similar.
I've now had a first fitting and await the next.
The cost for a 2-piece - not much change from £3000.

Earlier this week I ordered my second suit. I've gone "off-Row" this time as £3000 per suit is a bit rich for me at this stage in my life so I went to Graham Browne in the City who will do a 2-piece from £850.

Finally, if you can, read "The London Cut" by James Sherwood which is a good directory/history of firms on Savile Row. Also try "Bespoke-Savile Row Ripped and Smoothed" by Richard Anderson. Its a fascinating insight into the life of an apprentice cutter at a top House (Huntsman). All the best.

[Costi]

Clemens, too many questions and too little action!
The fright you mention will not dissipate until you face it - reading and thinking about it will only increase your anxiety. Tailors are not man eaters, so just go in, salute politely and act sensibly. Your English is perfectly fine and your age can work to your advantage by winning the interlocutor's sympathy, as long as you remain genuine, eager to learn and you don't bluff as an expert. Go and be confident that it will be a pleasant experience - there is no reason why it shouldn't.

[jlazarow]

Clemens,

I agree with what most people have said! Costi is absolutely right. In the end you have nothing to fear or worry about it. I too am on the younger side and I have admired bespoke clothes my whole life. I remember when my parents first took me to London and I was so excited to go walk the Row, even though I was not nor should not have bought a suit from them. I met a couple of cutters, both of whom I still talk to, then. I was the admiring teenager. As I got older I worked hard, bought a tie or so from my two favorite tailors, and kept in touch. Although I was older than you when I bought my first suit, after saving up for it and having a good bonus I bought my first suit, while under 30. Its been a few years and I have added a bit to my closet, but even if I am not buying I just pop in for a visit, when I can. The trick is to show a genuine interest and they will share back. Not to mention, their future depends on customers like us, younger admirers of the art of tailoring (and trust me its an art form).

[Costi]

Welcome to the Lounge, jlazarow - I am glad we agree and I hope Clemens finds our advice useful. Yes, the young clientelle is paramount to the survival and perpetuation of the bespoke apparel arts. And yes, the tailors and shoemakers and shirtmakers and hatmakers know it all too well, so most of them are not only open to young customers, but pleased to see them walk through their door with a genuine interest in what they do.

[Cufflink79]

Also, could anyone tell me if Savile Row is in walking distance of Jermyn Street? I am also in need of some chain cufflinks!

First of all Clemens welcome to the London Lounge. I wish you the best of luck on your first bespoke suit venture.

Also, have fun looking for those cuff links.

I have not had the chance to visit London yet but thanks to Google Maps and Street View I can tell you that Savile Row is walking distance of Jermyn Street.

Savile Row: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

Jermyn Street: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

[jlazarow]

Thanks for the warm welcome! It is greatly appreciated. I completely agree with you. Its all about a passion for their art and an appreciation in their skills. I know I have much to learn! Thanks, in advance for all of your advice!

Welcome to the Lounge, jlazarow - I am glad we agree and I hope Clemens finds our advice useful. Yes, the young clientelle is paramount to the survival and perpetuation of the bespoke apparel arts. And yes, the tailors and shoemakers and shirtmakers and hatmakers know it all too well, so most of them are not only open to young customers, but pleased to see them walk through their door with a genuine interest in what they do.

[The_Sartorialist]

Clemens,

Just to add on my personal experience along with the earlier comments to date, I decided to start with an 'off-Row' tailor when I first began my bespoke journey simply because of cost sensitivities. As Costi had mentioned, nothing will substitute your own learning experience that you acquire from the entire process, and from my point of view, it's more cost effective to start at the more affordable end of the spectrum, as you will no doubt pick up nuances of how you want your garment to look over time, refining the notion of your ideal garment with each iteration. By heading straight for the Row on your first try (although not impossible), your opportunities to experiment are easily limited (simply due to the cost per garment, and, like with most people, the scarcity of financial resources!).

I would recount that the 'off-Row' tailors that I have patronised so far have been reputable, provided me with excellent service, and produced garments that I am certainly proud to wear.

I, too, am a very happy customer of Russell and Dan at Graham Browne (based in the City), and would heartily recommend them for your first bespoke, if you are someone who would be keen to adopt the kind of approach outlined above. And as a previous poster had said, avoid visiting tailors at lunch time, since that's typically when they are busiest with the working crowd coming in for fittings or new orders. I would suggest mid mornings or late in the day. Or even better, ring up the tailor beforehand and let him / her know that you are considering your first bespoke and would like to find out when would be a good time to pay his / her atelier a visit. Any reputable tailor would not make you feel obliged to make a purchase, so the pressure is easily off. And if you do end up visiting Russell at Graham Browne, I would add that he is certainly aware of his customers who are London Lounge members as well, so letting him know that you learnt about him through London Lounge is a good way to break the ice.

All the best!

[whyescalar]

When I was your age, I had a blazer, summer cotton and grey flannel suit. I had spent my life since three swimming, so probably had large shoulders from my age and stature (5"08, i.e. short). Fast forward to 23, I had to get a whole new gear because I had grown another few inches across the shoulders through mountaineering. Changed again at thirty. Your body will settle into the shape you'll maintain for decades, but not that early. Move slowly.

[sartorius]

Clemens,

I think your original question is a perfectly valid one. Indeed, it seems a shame there is not more real inside knowledge posted on these forums along the lines you mention. I agree of course that bespoke tailoring is personal, and that everyone should visit tailors to gauge their style, manner and approach. But some things are next to impossible to ascertain by a novice, and others only become apparent with experience. In an ideal world we would visit every tailor on the Row, commission a suit from each and then pick the one we preferred for our second commission. Back in prosaic reality...

I have said before on this site that what would be really useful is an "insider's guide" to the different styles on SR. For example, it would be fantastic to have a resource which explained which house styles particularly suit (or don't suit) a certain body shape. I read recently an interview with someone from A&S who said that their silhouette is best suited to those with a small frame (think Duke of Windsor, who was tiny). Now, I am slim, but I have very broad shoulders, so I can image an A&S coat would make me look like Mr Incredible - not a good look! Huntsman, so I have occasionally seen it said, will suit those with broad shoulders and a narrow waist - now that is much more my sort of thing if it is indeed true.

So, I continue to hope that we may some day have a guide which answers some of your (and my) questions.

Sartorius

[Costi]

Sartorius, how do you choose from a menu in a restaurant? You don't get small helpings of all dishes you might fancy so you may choose. You read the names, ask the waiter, take a peak at the neighbouring table, maybe look at a picture (in certain "restaurants") and make a call. You may be right, you may be wrong. You may like it, love it or send it back to the kitchen. However, what you find unedible may be someone else's favourite meal. How did you choose the restaurant in the first place? You're not always impressed with the places others (or the guides) recommend.
So it's a matter of taste, of chance, of inspiration to find YOUR tailor. If you try to rationalize the decision too much, you may end up disillusioned by the difference between expectations and reality. It's not realistic to imagine you can rationally determine THE tailor that is best for you. Besides, there is no strict correspondence between styles and body types - it's also a matter of preference of the customer. Moreover, a good tailor can make many styles - what you see in the window or what others get is not THE ONLY THING or ALL a tailor (or a tailoring house) can do.
I think there is more than enough knowledge on SR tailoring houses on the fora. On the contrary, I tend to think there is too much talking about it and that's what makes newcomers agonize about the decision. Take a dive!

[jlazarow]

I agree with Costi that the best thing to do is to dive in. Whatever you chose today is not forever. As we all get older, our tastes change and perhaps our tailoring preference will evolve as well! Have fun with it.