When you see someone with style, someone who makes an impression through an attractive, appealing or even seductive presence, what words do you associate with the image and why?
It might be interesting to start to understand style, chic, presence, charm (take your pick) by associating key themes in this way.
We have started with words like: authentic, original, intelligent, confident, proud....
I am going to suggest the word "flirtatious" or better, coquet. There should be a positive cast to this description not a pejorative one, a kind of generalized good humor and attitude towards all people, a seduction that always remains seductive because there is no end game to it. David Niven comes to mind.
Cheers
Michael
Lexicon of style
Captivating.
Someone with presence captivates the attention, charms the senses of those around.
Not entirely sure about "proud", but aware of one's own value; not vain.
Never a misanthrope or a pesimist.
Someone with presence captivates the attention, charms the senses of those around.
Not entirely sure about "proud", but aware of one's own value; not vain.
Never a misanthrope or a pesimist.
Costi
I think of pride as exemplified in Sinatra's rule #11: "Don’t hide your scars. They make you who you are." There is strength, pride (value) and resignation in that statement that is very attractive. The point is to become who you are or let yourself be who you are. This does not mean to go around with a chip on your shoulder which would be neither strong nor resigned, as well as being boorish. On the other hand a good dose of healthy pride and sense of personal honor would do a lot of men some real good.
Michael
I think of pride as exemplified in Sinatra's rule #11: "Don’t hide your scars. They make you who you are." There is strength, pride (value) and resignation in that statement that is very attractive. The point is to become who you are or let yourself be who you are. This does not mean to go around with a chip on your shoulder which would be neither strong nor resigned, as well as being boorish. On the other hand a good dose of healthy pride and sense of personal honor would do a lot of men some real good.
Michael
Yes. I would add a correlative to "don't hide": don't show off, either. Style shows, but doesn't show off. It's noble, not pompous.
-
storeynicholas
Maybe, defiance, resilience and adaptability have a place. A friend of mine is a lay reader at St Vedast in the City of London. He told me this story a few years ago. One of the recent priests there had been Gonville ffrench-Beytagh. Previously, he had been the (Anglican) Dean of Johannesburg Cathedral. He opposed apartheid in the 1980s and, like so many, found himself imprisoned for this. The authorities sought to punish him additionally by denying him bread and wine with which to celebrate the Eucharist.
So he stood in front of the window bars (the nearest thing to a cross that he could see), gathered up some dust in his cell and blessed it and took it as the Bread and then he blessed the sunbeams and took them as the Wine. He was later expelled from South Africa. Presumably, they knew what they were up against and he ended up as priest in charge of St Vedast.
NJS
So he stood in front of the window bars (the nearest thing to a cross that he could see), gathered up some dust in his cell and blessed it and took it as the Bread and then he blessed the sunbeams and took them as the Wine. He was later expelled from South Africa. Presumably, they knew what they were up against and he ended up as priest in charge of St Vedast.
NJS
The word “elegance” inevitably comes to mind when we think of such a Lexicon.
I have written something like this in another thread:
“Elegance” stems from Latin “eligere”, i.e. “to select”, “to choose”. From “eligere” also stems the English verb “to elect”. The elegant person is thus in a position to “elect” different items of clothing, accessories, gestures, words, etc. and, out of a sense of unity and harmony, create beauty. While a sunset or a landscape can be beautiful, we never say they are elegant. And a painting depicting a sunset or landscape is only elegant to the extent the artist himself was able to “elect” certain colors, forms, perspective, etc. in order to confer unity and harmony upon them. A woman, too, can be beautiful, but in saying she is elegant, it seems we mean something quite different.
I have written something like this in another thread:
“Elegance” stems from Latin “eligere”, i.e. “to select”, “to choose”. From “eligere” also stems the English verb “to elect”. The elegant person is thus in a position to “elect” different items of clothing, accessories, gestures, words, etc. and, out of a sense of unity and harmony, create beauty. While a sunset or a landscape can be beautiful, we never say they are elegant. And a painting depicting a sunset or landscape is only elegant to the extent the artist himself was able to “elect” certain colors, forms, perspective, etc. in order to confer unity and harmony upon them. A woman, too, can be beautiful, but in saying she is elegant, it seems we mean something quite different.
That brings to mind another idea: a man or woman who doesn't like oneself cannot be elegant. No need to be narcissistic about it, but you do have to feel good in your own skin in order to radiate that presence.marcelo wrote:A woman, too, can be beautiful, but in saying she is elegant, it seems we mean something quite different.
If you accept yourself as you are (which does not preclude the aspiration to improve), you can accept others as they are, with their qualities and shortcomings. People feel that and respond positively. After all, style or presence is a matter of interaction: it is not something you may claim for yourself.
Nicholas - yes, strength of character we might call it. There is a tradition - at least in the Eastern Church - according to which a child in danger of dying unbaptized in a remote place may be baptized with dust instead of water, by any Christian soul (not just a priest) using his own words and nothing but a piece of string instead of a stole. God can be found anywhere and faith needs no rich adornments. Similarly, style needs no clothes to manifest itself...
Yes, I think that defiance and resilience relate to strength and resignation, the bending without breaking. And adaptability is a synonym of intelligence.Maybe, defiance, resilience and adaptability have a place.
Michael
In the definition of style we are developing, elegance is one of the potential facets but neither underlying nor intrinsic. It is quite possible to elect well and be elegant and not have style ie lack presence or seductive charm. I recently discovered that the Japanese make this same distinction between johin (elegance) and iki (stylish or seductive charm.)The word “elegance” inevitably comes to mind when we think of such a Lexicon.
The Japanese distinction between elegance and style is visually quite obvious once one sees a few live examples. In the abstract, the former can be taught; it is an external entity. In contrast, style cannot be taught; it is an internal entity that happens to manifest itself externally. Elegance can be put on. One cannot put on Style.
As for the lexicon, since my vocabulary is really rather limited, the word that consistently comes to mind in such instances is 'cool'. I can probably write an entire thesis on rationalising my rather common choice of word, but I might just keep it succinct by admitting that it is probably because I'm juvenile.
As for the lexicon, since my vocabulary is really rather limited, the word that consistently comes to mind in such instances is 'cool'. I can probably write an entire thesis on rationalising my rather common choice of word, but I might just keep it succinct by admitting that it is probably because I'm juvenile.
Yes, that is an excellent summary of the distinction and the study of "style" that I am trying to develop here. One of the ways many men will have of experiencing style is via cinema but the impact of feeling the presence of style is clearly most immediate face to face.The Japanese distinction between elegance and style is visually quite obvious once one sees a few live examples. In the abstract, the former can be taught; it is an external entity. In contrast, style cannot be taught; it is an internal entity that happens to manifest itself externally. Elegance can be put on. One cannot put on Style.
"Cool" is very definitely a style keyword as it defines the sense of detachment, the disinterested coolness that we also find in iki.
PS Do write that thesis.
Cheers
Michael
Put another way, Jeeves can help you with Elegance but not with Style.
'Cool' goes back to Sinatra's Rule #11. I am not too fond of 'proud' and prefer 'confident' or 'secure'. To have risen above it all. Being an Übermensch (as was meant by the hairy Prussian rather than the seemingly popular and ill-informed proto-Nazi interpretation). One cannot be cool and insecure simultaneously; they are mutually exclusive.
Confidence and sense of security affords one that sense of detachment from and disinterest in matters of little or no consequence. It is, however, not about being disengaged. Quite the contrary. It is about having an altogether different appreciation of life. One might argue that it is about actually being able to appreciate life, being free of everything that ties one down one way or another. It is serenity not in the sense that one could hear the pin drop but in the sense that one is not perturbed by external forces and has achieved some sort of internal equilibrium.
Call me Zen Master Flash.
'Cool' goes back to Sinatra's Rule #11. I am not too fond of 'proud' and prefer 'confident' or 'secure'. To have risen above it all. Being an Übermensch (as was meant by the hairy Prussian rather than the seemingly popular and ill-informed proto-Nazi interpretation). One cannot be cool and insecure simultaneously; they are mutually exclusive.
Confidence and sense of security affords one that sense of detachment from and disinterest in matters of little or no consequence. It is, however, not about being disengaged. Quite the contrary. It is about having an altogether different appreciation of life. One might argue that it is about actually being able to appreciate life, being free of everything that ties one down one way or another. It is serenity not in the sense that one could hear the pin drop but in the sense that one is not perturbed by external forces and has achieved some sort of internal equilibrium.
Call me Zen Master Flash.
I was thinking of the word ikiji how does one render this in English instead of using "pride or honor" would it be "pluck?"'Cool' goes back to Sinatra's Rule #11. I am not too fond of 'proud' and prefer 'confident' or 'secure'. To have risen above it all. Being an Übermensch (as was meant by the hairy Prussian rather than the seemingly popular and ill-informed proto-Nazi interpretation). One cannot be cool and insecure simultaneously; they are mutually exclusive.
Excellent. Yes style is a kind of real engagement with life. Your description of serenity in the last sentence reminds me very much of Balzac. His classic essay on "The Stride" demonstrates how the pace and nature of one's movements express style by their easiness and serenity, not being pressed by external forces.Confidence and sense of security affords one that sense of detachment from and disinterest in matters of little or no consequence. It is, however, not about being disengaged. Quite the contrary. It is about having an altogether different appreciation of life. One might argue that it is about actually being able to appreciate life, being free of everything that ties one down one way or another. It is serenity not in the sense that one could hear the pin drop but in the sense that one is not perturbed by external forces and has achieved some sort of internal equilibrium.
When reading the descriptions of iki, I immediately thought of Balzac and his attempt to describe something very similar. Though it does not have an exact equivalent in Western languages, it does describe a human state of being. The words “plucky, urbane, chic, seductive, charming, classy, serene, and dandified” when taken as a composite could be called iki-like, “seductive, natural style.” If anyone needs an image, then it would look
'Pluck' is probably a reasonable translation, as other words that spring to mind are 'courage' and 'spine'. It is always difficult to translate words that have culturally specific context. It might help to examine the antonym, ikujinashi, which literally means lacking in ikiji. It would translate quite sufficiently as 'cowardly' or 'spineless'.
Despite my previous Dharma / Zarathustra moment, some of the more stylish people I know are, or were, actually some of the most tortured souls. I am at a loss as to how I might reconcile this with what I said above...
Despite my previous Dharma / Zarathustra moment, some of the more stylish people I know are, or were, actually some of the most tortured souls. I am at a loss as to how I might reconcile this with what I said above...
I think this can be the case but the population of tortured souls without style is still greater, by far. And most men would make more progress in style by torturing their souls a bit rather than torture their bank accounts trying to buy something that can't be bought.Despite my previous Dharma / Zarathustra moment, some of the more stylish people I know are, or were, actually some of the most tortured souls. I am at a loss as to how I might reconcile this with what I said above...
I am going to get some heat from the consumers for that one. In many ways, the Japanese are without equal in the description of certain aspects of human nature and aesthetics; they do make us look a bit backward and barbarian at times. I suggest anyone interested in style, find a teacher and learn fast. For as Balzac said: "This magnetic power is the goal of the elegant life. We must undertake everything and anything to be able to possess it; but success in this endeavor is always difficult because the recipe for success consists in having a beautiful soul."
-
- Information
-
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests