Blue Donegal tweed DB sportscoat?

[radicaldog]

I'd like to order a blue DB sportscoat in a mid-weight cloth (which for me means about 11oz). I could do a traditional blazer in a hopsack of sorts, but I was thinking whether a 4x2 (with roll to the lower button) coat with three patch pockets could be pulled off in a Donegal tweed. Your opinions would be much appreciated.

[Costi]

I can imagine wearing a blue donnegal SB jacket with patch pockets. You could even stretch the traditional use of a donnegal to a town leisure jacket (DB with patches), but I would not choose blue as a colour. If you don't want something more colourful, go for a lighter blue, or a blueish gray with colourful speckles. A dark blue DB jacket reminds of a navy blazer and it would seem strange to me to see it made in donnegal.

[alden]

I suggest you have a good Donegal made as a 3b front SB. A DB sports coat in tweed should be avoided at all costs.

Michael

[Des Esseintes]

I suggest you have a good Donegal made as a 3b front SB. A DB sports coat in tweed should be avoided at all costs.

Michael

Sweeping statements about what should be avoided at all costs should be avoided at all costs...

Sorry, Michael, but I respectfully disagree again, at least in principle. I find it difficult to come up with any convincing argument against a double-breasted jacket in tweed. It is uncommon, it is stretching the consistency of cloth and style with regards to formality, but it is, in my eyes, far from bad taste. I guess a rule against double-breasted tweed jackets is similar to the earlier view that suede shoes should never be worn with a city suit - easily rebutted, as proven by our good Duke of Windsor for the latter.

By the way, I do own a blue herringbone Donegal tweed jacket. It happens to be a three button single-breasted...

dE

[alden]

Sweeping statements about what should be avoided at all costs should be avoided at all costs...

Sorry, Michael, but I respectfully disagree again, at least in principle. I find it difficult to come up with any convincing argument against a double-breasted jacket in tweed. It is uncommon, it is stretching the consistency of cloth and style with regards to formality, but it is, in my eyes, far from bad taste. I guess a rule against double-breasted tweed jackets is similar to the earlier view that suede shoes should never be worn with a city suit - easily rebutted, as proven by our good Duke of Windsor for the latter.

By the way, I do own a blue herringbone Donegal tweed jacket. It happens to be a three button single-breasted...

dE

Well it may not be mathematically impossible to make a good looking tweed DB, but in thirty plus years of looking, I have never seen one. I may not be looking in the right places.

Good choice on your own Donny coat.

Cheers

Michael

[Des Esseintes]

Well it may not be mathematically impossible to make a good looking tweed DB, but in thirty plus years of looking, I have never seen one. I may not be looking in the right places.

Maybe an interesting challenge for the next round of the LL Sportscoat Derby? The LL is usually a good place to find good looking jackets...

Seriously though, I agree that a tweed double-breasted is not only uncommon but the few examples encountered usually couldn't convince. I am still wondering what it is, beyond the fact that it is just a non-canonical combination of cut and cloth that would make it so difficult to get a double-breasted jacket in tweed right. Double-breasted tweed overcoats don't seem that wrong, or do they?

dE

[alden]

Seriously though, I agree that a tweed double-breasted is not only uncommon but the few examples encountered usually couldn't convince. I am still wondering what it is, beyond the fact that it is just a non-canonical combination of cut and cloth that would make it so difficult to get a double-breasted jacket in tweed right. Double-breasted tweed overcoats don't seem that wrong, or do they?

Tweed fabrics tend to be voluminous and this bulk is amplified by the DBs overlap. DB coats are also worn a bit shorter than SBs and do not have open front quarters. This makes the tweeds added bulk look even more square and squat in a DB.

Tweeds also tend to be highly patterned and these patterns are scrambled a bit by the crossing and sweep of DB lapels. Even the Prince of Wales check that works very well as a suit, is not happy as an odd DB jacket.

The DB overcoat shines in Donegal tweed as long as it is cut with ample dimensions to match the volume of the cloth itself. An overcoat has a longer line and the elongation softens the impact of the tweed’s volume.

A DB odd jacket might work with a fine tweed/worsted blend cloth or a fine merinos Saxony cloth as long as the patterns are plain and neutral. I do not see a Donegal tweed being a good specimen for experimentation.

Cheers

Michael

[Costi]

I just wanted to crosslink two topics that have a lot in common: http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... =31&t=9347

I guess a rule against double-breasted tweed jackets is similar to the earlier view that suede shoes should never be worn with a city suit - easily rebutted, as proven by our good Duke of Windsor for the latter.

Des Esseintes apropos the Duke of Windsor - I ran through some pictures that I have of him and, while he did wear suede shoes to city suits, I could not find a single instance of him wearing a DB tweed coat - although he wore DB coats a lot . Could it be that it never crossed his mind? I doubt it...

[carl browne]

How do you gentlemen feel about a db tweed SUIT?

I also think it depends on the tweed. It doesn't have to be a bold pattern.

If one is very thin, the extra bulk might be a good thing.

C

[radicaldog]

Apologies -- a mistake with the subscription settings prevented me from seeing the replies to this thread.

I have eventually decided against the DB Donny. Prince Charles is sometimes seen in DB tweed sportscoats, but those aren't his most successful ensembles. All in all I think I now agree with Michael's diagnosis of the causes of the incompatibility of tweed and DB odd coats.

I very nearly decided to order that odd DB 3-patch coat in a light blue Harrison's Moobeam cloth, but eventually I've resolved to just wait until my views on this are more settled.

[Greger]

I suggest you have a good Donegal made as a 3b front SB. A DB sports coat in tweed should be avoided at all costs.

Michael

Why do you say this? A DB sports coat in tweed would be rather warm some places, but fine in some colder climates. It is not often to see them anymore, but every cut and cloth has probably already been done, and the basic sports coats have been done many times which include DB sports coat in tweed. I've seen some coats where the tailor made a style that looks good on the customer and other tailors take the same style and never could give a good appearance. As a small child it became evident to never judge a style or cut by the lack of ability of this tailor or that tailor because there are other tailors who can give the cut or style a heavenly appearance on anybody. Some tailors are not artist, they just follow the rules. Other tailors are artist and some with in one glance see, visualize, where the seams belong and how to shape the cloth with an iron and interlinings and pad stitches, how to embelish this part of the body and camouflage the other parts. Art is from with in. Other people are born with other skills. Nobody has been denied some useful skill. But it does pay to know where one lacks.

It seems like so many sports coats are plain janes, nowadays. There are many fancy backs to do.

[Greger]

Des Esseintes apropos the Duke of Windsor - I ran through some pictures that I have of him and, while he did wear suede shoes to city suits, I could not find a single instance of him wearing a DB tweed coat - although he wore DB coats a lot . Could it be that it never crossed his mind? I doubt it...

The Duke of Windsor was born famous. His fame puts him out in the public to see. How many unfamous people dressed just as good? If they were famous and you saw them how much of how they selected clothes would you push? The Duke of Windsor is a pretty small gene pool, so to say. What if his likes were a bit different, but equally as good? You would be pushing that instead. My point is think beyond his preferences. Be guided by what he did well, but don't be limited.

We all need heros. But, there comes a time to become a hero. What hero kisses his own feet?

[Costi]

Greger, you're my hero! You never give up
I hope you did understand the context, that I was commenting on Des Esseintes' post above mine about the Duke of Windsor's habit of breaking the rules. I do admire the way he dressed, but I don't see it following that I can't think beyond his preferences and I am limited. I don't idolize him or absolutize his tastes - I am perfectly capable of making my own judgments, I assure you. Thank you for your advice anyway.
There's no point really in stubbornly insisting on an unfortunate idea for the sake of defending diversity. The tweed DB odd jacket is simply a whim of fashion or of a particular bespoke customer's imagination and has no filiation with elegance. Of course, this is my personal opinion...
By the way, do you personally own any tweed DB odd jackets?

[Greger]

No I don't.
But I do like this sweater of yours-
.

[Greger]

It seems like many people, younger, think that sports coats and blazers are a variation off of the suit coat, but they are not, they are each in there own class. When I see people makeing sports coats, not much different than a suit coat, then they are missing the purpose of the sports coat. White tie and black tie are both in different classes, too. These two you can even dance in, and many times expected to. Would you dance in a business suit? No. When I was younger many companies would not allow their employees to wear a blazer to work, much more/less a sports coat. With the hippies the differences between these garments was not passed on to the next generation, and they, the next generation, are guessing. In the old days practically all coats had lapels on them, whereas today that is not so. Younger people, I think, connect lapels to business coats and see the others and think there is some connection when there isn't. When you understand that each is in its own class, not connected to the others, then when you look at the history of these garments it should free you up to do what you want with that class as they did in the past. To this day, even though most are like this, nowadays, I think a sports coat that resembles a suit coat is odd and wrong. The sports coat is more like a race horse and the business suit is more like the milk cow, two entirely different animals and with two entirely different purposes. And what is the blazer? The family pet, a dog? White tie the prize bull and the black tie? When you divide these garments up you will enjoy them much more for what they are.