Morning Dress Waistcoat

[floatinjoe]

I am getting married this July and am having morning dress made for the event. The entire outfit’s details are complete with the exception of the waistcoat. My plan had been to do a double-breasted buff waistcoat with a basque waistline. However, I have had a lot of difficulty in sourcing the buff linen. It was also brought to my attention that the possibility existed that the buff would not go with my coloring well. This led me to the possibility of going with dove grey. Initially I was okay with it, but I felt like I was settling. Then an idea hit me, "what about white". I remembered reading in Manton’s speech "Wedding Attire in the Modern World", he said,

Your groom will also need a vest. It can be single or double breasted, but double looks much better. The color should be light: either dove gray or off white or (perhaps best of all) “buff”, a sort of creamy yellow. The traditional material was linen, but wool boxcloth will do, and might be better for winter. One caveat: if he goes with the morning suit, the vest should match (same cloth) the coat and trousers.

Here, he mentions an off white waistcoat. Has anyone seen this before? The only image I’ve been able to find is of Fred Astaire at the end of the movie “Easter Parade”. He and Judy Garland get ready to go out for the Easter Parade and he is wearing morning dress with a white waistcoat.

I very much like the idea of wearing the white waistcoat. It is different enough to be something special, but still looked rather classy (then again, most everything looked classy on Fred Astaire).

What type of material would you recommend I use, if I go this route? The coat is a black herringbone. I thought that a textured fabric would be a nice touch, but am unsure of mixing two herringbones together.

I am looking for people’s feelings, experiences, and input. What do you think about this? Have you seen it before? Any images?

All feedback is welcome.

Mike

[storeynicholas]

White is fine (white or off-white), in my view. There's a picture of Duff Cooper attending John Julius Norwich's wedding in a single-breasted waistcoat with a frock coat. That was in the late fifties, I think. I don't have it to hand, though. Linen seems fine, doesn't there seem to be some consensus, amongst those seeking templates, if not rules?
NJS

[floatinjoe]

storeynicholas,

Thank you for your input. I think you are right that off-white will look much better.

As for rules, I'm not so much looking for rules, but people's feedback. I have only worn morning dress once (rental for my brother's wedding). In fact, I don't think I've ever seen it worn in person at anything but his wedding.

Most all the pictures I've seen are of grey waistcoats. I've seen very few buff ones, and only the few pictures of Fred Astaire in white ones ("Easter Parade" and "Swing Time"). I figure that since morning dress is much more common in the UK, that people may have thoughts on it (both the look and fabric/construction).

I know that everyone's tastes will be different, but I'm curious as to what people think. I realize I have to make the final decision, but I also need to realize that just because I think it will look good, doesn't mean that it actually does.

Any and feedback is appreciated.

Mike

[storeynicholas]

I'd just think about what feels comfortable for you. It's your day too but, principally, your bride's. Alternatives to white/off-white might be buff or grey (SB or DB) with white slips or tabs lining the lapels: very smart too!
best,
NJS

[culverwood]

I have had grey and buff waistcoats in the past with my morning dress and these are the most commonly seen ones in the UK. An off white one would look great and to my mind slightly "smarter". I think the lack of reply regarding materials is because either one's tailor picks out the material for you (with your approval of course) or you choose a waistcoat off the peg from somewhere like Ede and Ravenscroft (conventional) or Favourbrook (flashy perhaps) so there is little need to source it yourself.

My sons waistcoat is grey and slipped as NJS suggests and he is very pleased with it.

[cdo]

My morning dress waistcoat is made up from a cream 11oz hopsack cloth from the Smith Woolens formal book - like the one seen in the A&S website. I can't recall whether there was an white or off-white cloth in the bunch but can check the book when I visit them in the next week or so.

- C

[floatinjoe]

Thank you for your feedback. I do appreciate it.

cdo,
Any chance you could post or send me some pictures of you in your morning dress? I'd like to see how the cream looks in the overall ensemble. This is a definite possibility.

Mike

[cdo]

Unfortunately, the morning coat is at my parents' home at the moment - when I next get a chance, I'll pick it up and get a couple of photos of the ensemble. However, I kept the swatches sent by my tailor so I took quick snaps of the waistcoat cloths. From my screen, the second photo is more representative of the colour of the cloths (the first photo is a little underexposed). Not ideal but hopefully, it will give you a rough idea. I finally chose SW 8851.




- C

[floatinjoe]

cdo, thank you for posting those swatches. I look forward to seeing your ensemble.

In doing more research on morning dress, and wedding fashion in particular, I read portions of Emily Post’s Etiquette in Society, in Business, in Politics and at Home (published New York: Funk & Wagnalls Company, 1922). This book is quite informative for what was “proper” in America at the time. I am unsure how much of this applied to other parts of the world.

The reason I mention this, is that she mentions the use of a “white piqué double-breasted waistcoat”. It is good to know that my intention for wearing a white double-breasted waistcoat was considered “proper” or “the norm” at one point. Though I had never heard of a piqué waistcoat with daywear.

In "The Wedding Clothes of the Bridegroom" from Chapter XXI, "First Preparations before a Wedding", she says:

If he does not already possess a well fitting morning coat (often called a cutaway) he must order one for his wedding. The frock coat is out of fashion at the moment. He must also have dark striped gray trousers. At many smart weddings, especially in the spring, a groom (also his best man) wears a white piqué high double-breasted waistcoat, because the more white that can be got into an otherwise sombre costume the more wedding-like it looks; conventionally he wears a black one to match his coat, like the ushers. The white edge to a black waistcoat is not, at present, very good form.

Later in “Formal Afternoon Dress” from Chapter XXXIV, “The Clothes of a Gentleman”, she says:

Formal afternoon dress consists of a black cutaway coat with white piqué or black cloth waistcoat, and gray-and-black striped trousers.

What are your thoughts on using piqué for a waistcoat with morning dress?

Mike