Is the grass greener?

[alden]

“It is a little, professional glimpse into the ‘How Italians Dress at the Weekend’ aesthetic that so much of the Anglo-Saxon world aspires to.”

This comment was recently posted on a blog on men’s fashion and refers to a publication by Loro Piana, an Italian textiles producer.

Now if you will keep these words in mind, please study the following picture of Mr Uman, an Italian, who is attending a weekend function north of Rome:



A classic Norfolk jacket made by H Poole of London in splendid Scottish tweed is worn with plus 4s, colorful socks and derby shoes. It’s not the Eye-talian stallion look is it?

Is the premise of the argument true? Is it a case of the grass being greener elsewhere?

Since the beginning of time, or at least since the establishment of London House, moneyed Italians have aped the look of the English classes, and most times they do it very well, even better than their role models. All of my Italian friends have one style in mind and it is very much Savile Row by inspiration albeit Italian by hand crafting.

So who in England, who has the means, wants to copy Loro Piana style?

Ah, the diversity of style….

Cheers

M Alden

[carpu65]

Well,Rubinacci called his tailor shop "London house",not "Casa Napoli" ("Naples house").
Italians have ever look to London for their suits.
Is a thing that must understand about Italians: we are not nationalists or chauvinistics (and this can be a problem for many things).
Even in the fascist period the more great compliment for an Italian was "veste come un Inglese" (dress like a Englishman).
Is true that the Italian have a much personal vision about English fashions.
Ad exemple few understand the British understatement.
So is said that in 30s a Napolitan gentleman went in London.
Come to hotel said to his buttler "Gennaro,go into the street and tell me how the English are dress".
After alf hour Gennaro come back and said:"Sir,here the only English are you".

And now,from the Alberto Sordi movie "Fumo di Londra" (1966) ,the Italian Anglophile:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzy0ESRTMCg

[alden]

Is a thing that must understand about Italians: we are not nationalists or chauvinistics (and this can be a problem for many things).

Dear Carpu

Yes this is indeed a part of many Italian's character and I find it a very positive one. The Italian is not limited by national borders in the search for beautiful and good things. When they are found, they are adopted, brought home, played with maybe modified and improved. We should train our eyes to be open in this way to the world.

Cheers

Michael Alden

[Bishop of Briggs]

This thread reminds me of Georgio Armani's insulting comments on Savile Row. Make sure that you have a full glass of your favourite tipple ready before reading them!

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 684985.ece

“Savile Row is a comedy, a melodrama lost in the past. It’s so old it should be in black and white”

“When I think of Savile Row I picture a man in an old black and white English film. He is living in the country. He has a butler. He smokes a cigar sitting in an old-fashioned Prince of Wales check suit.”

He lampoons English tailors as men “of limited mentality ... who make clothes for the children of lords. They have a restricted idea of how a suit is made. The suit can only be made in this shape, with these fabrics. It has to be a certain way and they don’t go beyond that.

“They don’t research or develop something or innovate. There is no room in their head to expand into something new. They do not think of half the things that I take into consideration when I think of a hand-made to measure suit.”

“Younger clients want a made-to-measure suit but they are not so keen on all the old traditions. They have different concerns. They want to know not just how a suit looks when they first put it on but how it moves, how it sheens, how it hangs, how easy it is to travel in, whether it looks as good with sneakers as it does with a pair of hand-made shoes.”

“I have been in the market for 35 years doing tailoring, womenswear, sportswear. Often, I will find technology for a man’s bespoke suit that has its origins in sportswear. Or I find a fabric from women’s ready-to-wear, say a crepe, that I can use to create a unique suit for the right man. Savile Row would never do that.”

[alden]

Bishop,

Well Armani's was clearly a commercially motivated attack. I can't imagine very many men bought the Armani bespoke line.

Tom Ford has been more successful in introducing a bespoke-like product into RTW than GA.
And we now know that Tom sells Fords so he can buy RR on Savile Row. A fellow named Ralph does the same.

Cheers

Michael

PS I got a big kick out of GA equating his bespoke suits with the ownership of a vacation house on the Costa Smeralda in Sardegna. GA's main vacation house is actually on the island of Pantelleria in Sicily.

[carpu65]

Giorgio Armani said the same things about Italian bespoke.
But he play in another league; is a designer for prêt-à-porter ,not a tailor.
And,in my opinion his "bespoke" is worse of the ready to wear of Kiton or Isaia.

[Costi]

Is a thing that must understand about Italians: we are not nationalists or chauvinistics (and this can be a problem for many things).

Dear Carpu

Yes this is indeed a part of many Italian's character and I find it a very positive one. The Italian is not limited by national borders in the search for beautiful and good things. When they are found, they are adopted, brought home, played with maybe modified and improved. We should train our eyes to be open in this way to the world.

Cheers

Michael Alden

Perhaps it's not so much a matter of lack of nationalism, because Italians love Italy in the same way a mother loves her child: she will scold him for his misbehaviour and criticize his marks at school, but God forbid that a stranger should say anything bad about her son!
I thinks what Italians are NOT is dogmatic. They let themselves be inspired. They note what is of value, they grasp quickly what is there to be learned from others and, as Michael writes, they incorporate it into their own ways, but they never graft it tale quale.
And in the end, whether admiring the prototype of the English gentleman or another model...

Tu vuo' fa' ll'americano
mericano, mericano...
ma si' nato in Italy!
sient' a mme: nun ce sta niente 'a fa'
ok, napulitan!


...the Italian, thankfully, never becomes one. At least one from Napoli Isn't that a quality?

[alden]

Giorgio Armani said the same things about Italian bespoke.
But he play in another league; is a designer for prêt-à-porter ,not a tailor.
And,in my opinion his "bespoke" is worse of the ready to wear of Kiton or Isaia.

I didn't know that GA had taken on the Italian bespoke world as well. And it is interesting to learn that his "bespoke" product is actually quite ordinary, that is not much of a surprise.

GA is essentially a designer of woman's RTW clothes. His men's line always seemed an afterthought, an add on.

The odd thing is that GA, the man, is so completely lacking in style.

Cheers

M Alden

[storeynicholas]

If the grass is greener, by reference to GA, it is probably because it is astro-turf. All that springs to my mind in relation to his style is the promotion of the look that just comprises a black tee-shirt squeezed over sun-scorched, slightly pneumatic arms. I do find it disappointing that SR doesn't return fire: a letter to The Thunderer, signed by the chairmen of the oldest firms. Maybe, they think that it would be infra dig.. I can see the point of view; the same as that behind Dr Johnson's observation that "A fly, Sir, may sting a stately horse and make him wince; but one is but an insect, and the other is a horse still." But, on balance, I think that a joint letter could be written with enough fire to show the glow of the deeply banked-down hearth from which it comes; with elegance and with dignity.
NJS