Velvet Collar

[manton]

So I have it in mind to get a new overcoat. Cloth will be navy wool herringbone, configuration 6x2 DB, breast welt, hip flap pockets, dark blue horn buttons, otherwise no other fancy detailing.

Then I thought, why not get it with a blue velvent collar? Will give the coat sort of Chesterfield air, but DB rather than SB, hence (among other things) no fly front, and not gray.

Since this is going to be a city suit/black tie overcoat anyway, it might be a nice touch.

I hesitate, I suppose, because I don't want it to end up too fancy or attention getting.

Thoughts?

[Cufflink79]

Have it made, it sounds just like what I'd have in mind for an overcoat.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

[Costi]

As far as I know, a Chesterfield is not necessarily fly front SB. Your DB overcoat sounds like a Chesterfield alright. The velvet collar would most certainly not be out of place, so do have it and don't worry about ending up too fancy. If you really wanted an overcoat that was not attention getting, you wouldn't even be thinking about a velvet collar

[Jordan Marc]

Manton:

Whether double- or single-breasted, why not have an overcoat made with a collar matching the fabric of the coat? When the collar wears out you can always replace it with velvet. It's called giving a good coat a second life. While you're at it, why not have a beautiful dark blue beaver felt fedora custom made by Graham Thompson of Optimo Hats in Chicago?

JMB

[manton]

I am not that hard on my clothes, I have suits and jackets that are more than ten years old -- some more than 15 -- that are still fine. I don't think the collar on this coat would ever wear out. For one thing, this is very sturdy cloth.

[storeynicholas]

It's not going to have any collar at the first fitting - why not drape blue (and also try black) velvet around the collar at that stage to decide?
NJS

[shredder]

I would say, do it.

My understanding is that there are 2 ways to do a velvet collar. One is to actually make the collar in velvet. The other is to lay the velvet over the real collar but make it appear as though the collar is made of velvet (edges folded in and pressed), which, incidentally, is the way I had one collar done. I was told that the latter is the more traditional method, especially for country kit, so that it can be replaced more easily when the velvet becomes worn out and grubby. It must be said that it does add a bit of bulk but not enough to be noticeable without actually touching the collar. Given the envisaged usage, I do not think that you will need to ever have the collar replaced. However, if you do get a velvet collar and later decide that you don't like it, it may just be easier to get rid of it.

[Des Esseintes]

If you really wanted an overcoat that was not attention getting, you wouldn't even be thinking about a velvet collar

Costi,as always, had it right: A velvet collar will almost certainly be more "attention getting" than a plain self cloth collar, but then any bespoke item, with classic features, will be more "attention getting" nowadays than running around downtown in beach clothes or ripped jeans. And you clearly made your choices for bespoke clothes.

If you like it, go for it. In my view, a subtly coloured velvet collar is just in the right spot between all to inconspicuous and dandified - you may want to consult an interesting recent book "The Suit", if this is a topic of interest to you... You might not like the author's style but it eloquently elaborates on what makes clothes "dandified"!

dE

[alden]

I have always felt that the DB overcoat, especially when worn by a tall, slender man, has so much natural "personality" that it should be made as simply as possible. The velvet collar is an unnecessary adornment and distraction in this regards. It's the one postage stamp too many on an otherwise perfect letter.

The more mundane SB Chesterfield accepts a velvet collar more readily and charges the model with the "dandified" air referred to above.

Cheers

M Alden

[Des Esseintes]

I have always felt that the DB overcoat, especially when worn by a tall, slender man, has so much natural "personality" that it should be made as simply as possible. The velvet collar is an unnecessary adornment and distraction in this regards. It's the one postage stamp too many on an otherwise perfect letter.

The more mundane SB Chesterfield accepts a velvet collar more readily and charges the model with the "dandified" air referred to above.

Cheers

M Alden

I respectfully disagree with the notion that a velvet collar is a distraction on a double-breasted coat. I have a wonderful handed-down double-breasted Chesterfield, made for my father by Welsh & Jefferies in the early 60s, I believe, or maybe late 50s, in a very heavy, very dark charcoal, almost black, self-herringbone cloth, with a black velvet collar, and I would argue the velvet collar, blending in colour-wise, and discernible only from very close range, keeps this coat from being just a massive bulk of dark cloth, gives it exactly the little bit of "decoration" it needs to be elegant yet leaves it still as inconspicuous as such a coat could be today.

dE

[alden]

dE

The coat sounds very smart. To the extent the velvet collar is matched in a subtle way, it could very well add the touch of refinement you describe. All too often, and this is probably due to poor execution or an ill advised choice of color, velvets attract much attention.

If a DB overcoat is cut and styled well, it will not seem a mass of cloth. Quite to the contrary, it is probably one of the most powerfully elegant garments a man can wear. If you are going to have a few of them, a velvety collar might be fun. But if it is going to be the be all and end all, I would choose a velvet-less approach.

Nice to see you around the Lounge again.

Cheers

Michael

[Des Esseintes]

Thanks Michael

I am happy I can find a bit more time again to peruse the Lounge and add a few more of my misguided and rambling diatribes.

I agree with everything in your second post. Too many attention-seeking purple velvet collars around lately, indeed.

Against my usual policy, I will try and take a photograph or two of the coat I mentioned and post them some time later this Autumn - currently, the coat is still in storage; it is very heavy indeed.

dE

[radicaldog]

Manton:

Whether double- or single-breasted, why not have an overcoat made with a collar matching the fabric of the coat? When the collar wears out you can always replace it with velvet. It's called giving a good coat a second life. While you're at it, why not have a beautiful dark blue beaver felt fedora custom made by Graham Thompson of Optimo Hats in Chicago?

JMB

Apologies for the slight digression, but I find blue hats hard to wear. As I see it, a hat should normally relate to the colour of one's shoes, so (broadly) grey for black shoes, and brown for brown shoes. Of course there are plenty of exceptions (Loden hats etc.), but still, I can't quite picture a blue fedora working well in any classic ensemble.

[Jordan Marc]

Radicaldog:

Forget normal, which implies the absence of style. Think outside the box. For example, style guides for the unadventuresome will invariably tell you to complement a navy blue worsted suit with plain navy hosiery and black calf cap-toe lace-ups. How pedestrian! It's more creative to accessorize your inky blue suit with, say, a beautiful non-directional patterned silk tie in shades of lavender, purple and white complemented with a similar, not matching, silk or linen pocket square with a different scale to its pattern. Add lavender hosiery with yet another pattern, and tuck your toes into suede lace-ups. Whether the color is navy or black, it's up to you. If lavender accessories aren't to your taste, consider other unexpected colors. That's style, which surprises and garners compliments, and it trumps normal every time.

When you're dressed and ready to leave the house, put on your navy blue Chesterfield and a navy blue beaver felt fedora tilted just so. The hat should complement the coat, not your shoes, and the texture and lustre of beaver felt surpasses smooth felt. For a bit of color add a contrasting neat-patterned or textured silk muffler. The outer wrapper and lid are primarily intended to keep you warm and dry, while the inner ensemble is secondarily something of a surprise. Think of it as a one-two punch. The compliments start coming when you take off your hat and coat.

JMB

[Costi]

With a navy suit I prefer a medium to light gray overcoat. If the shoes are black (pedestrian, but correct for business), I prefer my rainproof, crushable, navy Borsalino Traveller to a black Fedora, even if it would complement the shoes. The soft navy hat brings a touch of informality to the otherwise "correct" outfit. You cannot wear a hat like this in black, and if it's brown you can't wear it to the combination described above. If gray, a classic Fedora works better. Therefore, navy is the ideal colour for such a "less formal" hat to be worn in town.
Actually that's exactly what I wore today.