Dear members of the forum,
It is best to develop ideas and ideals on concrete examples and not merely “in general”. By this post I hope to provide some material for a discussion about proportion, cut, fit and elegance.
I think that we will all agree that the single most important value of bespeaking is the option to individualize the clothing to the unique figure of the wearer. Now regarding the principles of such individualization there seems to be no consensus. Some people say that tall and slim people benefit the most from the soft, three button and low-gorge jacket models. At the same time, others assert that the defined, one button Huntsman style coat attenuates all the good things about the body type best. One issue I would like to raise in this post is to try to ascertain the arguments both the schools have, and attempt to evaluate and construe each in terms of degree of applicability to various cases of “tall and slim”.
Personally (I am indeed tall at 1.9m and relatively slim with long-ish torso and short-ish arms and a large head), I tend to favor the one-button approach. I feel that there is naturally more elegance n the longer lapel line, since it signals out and symbolizing the inherent “resourcefulness” of the body underneath (i., the natural length of the torso). I am now thinking of bespeaking a new jacket and am struggling with the choice of the buttoning point. One the one hand, I have never tried the 1-button structure and wonder if that would not be the best solution for the unique features of my body. On the other hand, I am also a bit cautious about the overly long lapel line. From this second perspective, the high two-button structure, with both the buttons buttoned up, seems like a better alternative. Dear members of the forum, what do you think would be the better option in my case? (Attached are pictures of me in coats of different cuts: one with a lower button placement – this is how I envision the 1-button model, and another with the high 2-button placement). Thank you in advance!
Regards,
A
Seeking your advice on cut and proportion
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From the novice perspective, the second photo (higher button placement) appears to be more natural to your build and is more flattering in my opinion.
Did the same tailor make both jackets? The top photo with the lower button placement to my eye interrupts a natural line that is evident in the second photo's suit, perhaps due to the way the cloth lays.
Regards,
Gregory
Did the same tailor make both jackets? The top photo with the lower button placement to my eye interrupts a natural line that is evident in the second photo's suit, perhaps due to the way the cloth lays.
Regards,
Gregory
Dear Alpar,
Welcome back to the LL, we haven't heard from you for a long time!
As for the matter at hand, I think the type of buttoning stance in your second example suits you better. The Windsor-style 2 button (one above and one below the waist) seems to work very nicely on your frame, making for a balanced look. The one button configuration indeed makes for a too long lapel on you, with too much shirt / tie showing. You could also try a 3 button coat with the lapel rolled between the third and the second.
I think the lapels need to be in proportion to your frame in order to convey elegance, rather than simply "long". It's true, a short and stubby lapel is inelegant, but an overly long lapel can look out of place, too. The balanced lapel is a function of length (and implicitly buttoning point), width and proportion to your body (height, slimness, breadth of shoulders etc.).
I also think slanted pockets (including the breast pocket) accentuate height in your case, which you don't need. Also, perhaps your lapels could have A LITTLE more roll and belly (rather than make them any wider) - I am again referring to the coat of the second look.
Both your coats appear to be cut straight, with a lot of shirt showing - perhaps a more crooked cut would also help. The sleeve length looks better on the first coat - the extra cuff visible in the second one makes your arms appear longer.
If you move the buttoning point up and make the coat more crooked, you may want to open a bit the front quarters, so the coat doesn't APPEAR too long (the actual length seems good to me). If so, you may want to raise the waist of your trousers a bit, so that there would be no shirt visible between coat and trousers.
Welcome back to the LL, we haven't heard from you for a long time!
As for the matter at hand, I think the type of buttoning stance in your second example suits you better. The Windsor-style 2 button (one above and one below the waist) seems to work very nicely on your frame, making for a balanced look. The one button configuration indeed makes for a too long lapel on you, with too much shirt / tie showing. You could also try a 3 button coat with the lapel rolled between the third and the second.
I think the lapels need to be in proportion to your frame in order to convey elegance, rather than simply "long". It's true, a short and stubby lapel is inelegant, but an overly long lapel can look out of place, too. The balanced lapel is a function of length (and implicitly buttoning point), width and proportion to your body (height, slimness, breadth of shoulders etc.).
I also think slanted pockets (including the breast pocket) accentuate height in your case, which you don't need. Also, perhaps your lapels could have A LITTLE more roll and belly (rather than make them any wider) - I am again referring to the coat of the second look.
Both your coats appear to be cut straight, with a lot of shirt showing - perhaps a more crooked cut would also help. The sleeve length looks better on the first coat - the extra cuff visible in the second one makes your arms appear longer.
If you move the buttoning point up and make the coat more crooked, you may want to open a bit the front quarters, so the coat doesn't APPEAR too long (the actual length seems good to me). If so, you may want to raise the waist of your trousers a bit, so that there would be no shirt visible between coat and trousers.
You don't have shortish arms at all, but your head does look large... and blueAlpar wrote:I am indeed tall at 1.9m and relatively slim with long-ish torso and short-ish arms and a large head
Alpar
Costi has summarized things quite well, so no need to go over the major points.
The higher button point works better on you because it has the effect of shortening your torso's length and balancing the overall image.
We are about the same size. I would dress you in soft 3 button front coats and DB suits. That's the way I dress myself.
Cheers
Michael Alden
Costi has summarized things quite well, so no need to go over the major points.
The higher button point works better on you because it has the effect of shortening your torso's length and balancing the overall image.
We are about the same size. I would dress you in soft 3 button front coats and DB suits. That's the way I dress myself.
Cheers
Michael Alden
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