I must post a defense for Alan Flusser.
I have known Alan for at least 10 years, and I was a good customer at his Saks Fifth Avenue Custom Shop. He sold me my first made to measure suit.
Alan is a great dresser. He used to be more formal in that he would never allow himself to photographed in anything but a coat and tie. Lately he has been fairly casual and a little bit shaggy.
In the Charlie Rose interview (2002), Alan's coat got bunched-up, and he probably was not sitting straight. He was a bit nervous because he is not a TV person. The Rose staff should have had Alan un-bunch his coat. You should note that Rose has no bunch-up because he is a trained TV personality. It should be noted that where Alan had control over a filming he looked great. I have a set of "how to dress" VCR tapes that he did for Coppley Clothing, and he was very well dressed.
If you talked to Alan about the "rules" he could discuss them as well as anyone. However, he always has had individual touches. He is in the clothing business, and he is not a bank manager. I recall that when I first worked with him he wore Belgian slippers with his suits. Very elegant. On one occasion at the store on a Saturday he wore an old, grey sweat shirt with a beautiful Michael Drake wook chalis scarf (the unicorn).
Alan's books are classics. They have influenced me and countless others.
I have fond memories of my dealings with Alan, Mark, and staff, and I recommend the Flusser Shop. It is probably one of the most beautiful shops in NYC, and as a poster collector I particularly like his PKZ posters.
I am a bit puzzled about the "attack Alan" movement on the internet which seems to be taking root here.
Alan Flusser Interview
-
Mark Seitelman
- Posts: 965
- Joined: Fri Feb 11, 2005 8:42 am
- Location: New York City
- Contact:
Oh, don't just insert that double-edged serrated blade. Go ahead, twist it a few times in both directions!storeynicholas wrote: I think that the likeliest explanation is that he has recently bought a copy of Dressing in The Dark but not yet having read it through, he has started experimenting with what he believes, from the mere title, to be the author's advice - and the results we see here: probably not as good as dressing in the light.
NJS
I always found his style to be contrived and camp in a charmless way. Camp can be charming in the absence of earnestness but not in his case. His weight may not help but is not the root of the problem. I think it was Michael that said something about him not possessing IT, which I think succinctly nails the fundamental problem here. As such, I do not believe it would have mattered whether he wore a SB in lieu of the DB jacket; we would have found something else to kibitz about. (OK, so did I use "kibitz" properly?
)-
storeynicholas
I didn't really mean it like that. I can only repeat what I have said: that his personal appearance should not detract from an assessment of his ability to guide and advise. But I have been asked for my opinion on the images in the thread and I have to say that they are not that great. I hope that the reference to the title of Dressing In The Dark is seen as just a little fun.shredder wrote:Oh, don't just insert that double-edged serrated blade. Go ahead, twist it a few times in both directions!storeynicholas wrote: I think that the likeliest explanation is that he has recently bought a copy of Dressing in The Dark but not yet having read it through, he has started experimenting with what he believes, from the mere title, to be the author's advice - and the results we see here: probably not as good as dressing in the light.
NJS
NJS
"Alan is a great dresser. He used to be more formal in that he would never allow himself to photographed in anything but a coat and tie. Lately he has been fairly casual and a little bit shaggy."
As my comments above indicate, I'm entirely with you even if you call it "shaggy" and I call it "dishevelled." His overall appearance in realtime is always fairly stylish but he does miss the mark sometimes as Michael's picture shows probably because he's trying to be playful. Paradoxically some above accuse him of being formulaic. As I mentioned I bought something from him in his Saks days and it was excellent. His interpretation of the rules in his books is faultless so I do think some are being a bit over catholic here almost bringing a sort of monasticism to the practice of buying and wearing clothes which in reality has always been an uneasy marriage of commerce and aestheticism.
As my comments above indicate, I'm entirely with you even if you call it "shaggy" and I call it "dishevelled." His overall appearance in realtime is always fairly stylish but he does miss the mark sometimes as Michael's picture shows probably because he's trying to be playful. Paradoxically some above accuse him of being formulaic. As I mentioned I bought something from him in his Saks days and it was excellent. His interpretation of the rules in his books is faultless so I do think some are being a bit over catholic here almost bringing a sort of monasticism to the practice of buying and wearing clothes which in reality has always been an uneasy marriage of commerce and aestheticism.
I do not disagree.storeynicholas wrote: I didn't really mean it like that. I can only repeat what I have said: that his personal appearance should not detract from an assessment of his ability to guide and advise. But I have been asked for my opinion on the images in the thread and I have to say that they are not that great. I hope that the reference to the title of Dressing In The Dark is seen as just a little fun.
NJS
MarkI am a bit puzzled about the "attack Alan" movement on the internet which seems to be taking root here.
You know and have affection for Flusser and I can understand your reaction. But I think your characterization of this discussion as an “attack” is unfair. The members are discussing his dress on the Rose show and most people have gone out their way to separate the man and his writing achievements from the analysis and critique of his dress. There has been some gentle teasing but nothing even remotely resembling an attack, something that would not be tolerated here as you well know.
The two pictures posted here and the one on the cover of Dressing the Man are not very flattering. Yes, maybe the Rose people could have helped him for the show, but are they responsible for the other two as well? Flusser must have had some editorial input into the selection of a photo for his own book. Would you not agree?
Cheers
M Alden
-
storeynicholas
If I may:-alden wrote: Flusser must have had some editorial input into the selection of a photo for his own book. Would you not agree?
Cheers
M Alden
It depends on the contract. I had the right to make suggestions on my book cover - but I did not even see a proof of the final cover and even over the main title (that I am against) I had no say at all. None. So these things are not necessarily as simple as they seem. Publishers, these days regard themselves as conferring a privilege to publish any book and often reserve full editorial rights and rights over presentation and one just has to roll with the punches.
NJS
But the publishers can only use what they are given or permitted to take. So, either he gave them this image or allowed himself to be photographed in a setting which looks rather as though his 12 year old daughter has snapped him in his bedroom! Either way, it shows a distinct lack of care, which, as we all know, is an essential element to dressing well.It depends on the contract. I had the right to make suggestions on my book cover - but I did not even see a proof of the final cover and even over the main title (that I am against) I had no say at all. None. So these things are not necessarily as simple as they seem. Publishers, these days regard themselves as conferring a privilege to publish any book and often reserve full editorial rights and rights over presentation and one just has to roll with the punches.
Incidentally, I am certainly not seeking to "attack" Mr Flusser. I know very little about him and don't own his book or any of his clothing. I simply find it strange that someone who, as Mr Alden has suggested, has built a consulting business off the back of his publications and other credits in the film industry, should not present himself better on what was after all a promotional appearance on TV. Clearly, for some here, this matters little or not at all. I cannot say the same for myself.
NJS,
In essence, because I would only take advice from someone whose opinion I trusted. And in the case of clothing, part of establishing trust is, to me at least, the ability to demonstrate not only that one understands the principles but that one can apply them in practice. To put it another way, it is one thing to compile a book full of pictures of other people dressing well, but can the author translate whatever those other people had and make it work for you and me (and indeed for himself)?
To go back to your earlier example of a "great cutter" you once used, my own tailor wears his own suits. I may not like the cloth or the style or some of the details, but I cannot deny that they are superbly made and exquisitely fitted. He is in his mid 60s and of a somewhat portly build. Some of his suits are decades old. All of them are a tangible and brilliant demonstration of his skill at interpreting the rules and then applying them. This demonstration breeds trust. It is only part of the relationship, but an important part as far as I'm concerned.
In essence, because I would only take advice from someone whose opinion I trusted. And in the case of clothing, part of establishing trust is, to me at least, the ability to demonstrate not only that one understands the principles but that one can apply them in practice. To put it another way, it is one thing to compile a book full of pictures of other people dressing well, but can the author translate whatever those other people had and make it work for you and me (and indeed for himself)?
To go back to your earlier example of a "great cutter" you once used, my own tailor wears his own suits. I may not like the cloth or the style or some of the details, but I cannot deny that they are superbly made and exquisitely fitted. He is in his mid 60s and of a somewhat portly build. Some of his suits are decades old. All of them are a tangible and brilliant demonstration of his skill at interpreting the rules and then applying them. This demonstration breeds trust. It is only part of the relationship, but an important part as far as I'm concerned.
I wrote this in August of 2005. My comment regarding Flusser's book was pretty fair then as now. This text was written in response to a question about pattern matching, and shirt/tie selection skills:
"The experience you recount above is very instructive. You might want to think of it in terms of some of the essays regarding elegance written on this site. The “innate” ability your friend demonstrated to you is similar to the ability de Balzac explained thusly:
“It is an exquisite sense of tact, whose constant use and practice allows us to see otherwise hidden relationships, predict consequences, imagine the true dimensions and import of objects, words, ideas and beings, for, to summarize, the principle of Elegance is the vision of order, balance and harmony that reveals the intrinsic poetry of all things." Honore de Balzac, A Treatise on the Elegant Life
People blessed with such ability are, almost always, totally incapable of communicating their skill or rendering it into hard and fast rules or principles. It is just something that they can see and others cannot see.
It very much reminds me of the delightful quote from Tony Gaziano in his recent chat when he said, “There are no real rules to last making, which makes it hard to learn.”
Though books like “Dressing the Man” can offer some ideas, the real challenge is to train the eye. It would be a good idea to take a mental photo of the shirt and tie matches your friend made and store them into an elegance reference bank. Over time you will begin to recognize more and more of same, to the point that your vision will become tuned. Your own ability to match will improve as well. It is, in all honesty, the only way to learn how to present oneself with Elegance.
It would be so much more pleasant to be able to say that there is an Elegance pill that could be prescribed, the condensation of one man’s personal opinions that could be imbibed or some other quick fix available. There doesn’t seem to be one though because it just doesn't work like that. Elegance cannot be acheived by the kind of "paint by numbers" logic or methodology. If it were only that easy!"
Cheers
M Alden
"The experience you recount above is very instructive. You might want to think of it in terms of some of the essays regarding elegance written on this site. The “innate” ability your friend demonstrated to you is similar to the ability de Balzac explained thusly:
“It is an exquisite sense of tact, whose constant use and practice allows us to see otherwise hidden relationships, predict consequences, imagine the true dimensions and import of objects, words, ideas and beings, for, to summarize, the principle of Elegance is the vision of order, balance and harmony that reveals the intrinsic poetry of all things." Honore de Balzac, A Treatise on the Elegant Life
People blessed with such ability are, almost always, totally incapable of communicating their skill or rendering it into hard and fast rules or principles. It is just something that they can see and others cannot see.
It very much reminds me of the delightful quote from Tony Gaziano in his recent chat when he said, “There are no real rules to last making, which makes it hard to learn.”
Though books like “Dressing the Man” can offer some ideas, the real challenge is to train the eye. It would be a good idea to take a mental photo of the shirt and tie matches your friend made and store them into an elegance reference bank. Over time you will begin to recognize more and more of same, to the point that your vision will become tuned. Your own ability to match will improve as well. It is, in all honesty, the only way to learn how to present oneself with Elegance.
It would be so much more pleasant to be able to say that there is an Elegance pill that could be prescribed, the condensation of one man’s personal opinions that could be imbibed or some other quick fix available. There doesn’t seem to be one though because it just doesn't work like that. Elegance cannot be acheived by the kind of "paint by numbers" logic or methodology. If it were only that easy!"
Cheers
M Alden
-
storeynicholas
Sartorius - That is fair enough indeed!
Michael - Straight down the line. Maybe, just maybe, whether intended or not, the overall effect of the apparent inconsistency between Alan Flusser's general sayings and sometimes doings creates an atmosphere of debate that is healthy for all concerned
NJS
Michael - Straight down the line. Maybe, just maybe, whether intended or not, the overall effect of the apparent inconsistency between Alan Flusser's general sayings and sometimes doings creates an atmosphere of debate that is healthy for all concerned
NJS
Though books like “Dressing the Man” can offer some ideas, the real challenge is to train the eye. It would be a good idea to take a mental photo of the shirt and tie matches your friend made and store them into an elegance reference bank. Over time you will begin to recognize more and more of same, to the point that your vision will become tuned. Your own ability to match will improve as well. It is, in all honesty, the only way to learn how to present oneself with Elegance.
It would be so much more pleasant to be able to say that there is an Elegance pill that could be prescribed, the condensation of one man’s personal opinions that could be imbibed or some other quick fix available. There doesn’t seem to be one though because it just doesn't work like that. Elegance cannot be acheived by the kind of "paint by numbers" logic or methodology. If it were only that easy!"
Michael: I basically agree with you that at the end of the day the individual develops an eye for these things. But. Surely there's a place for someone to teach technique. Why else would we go golf clinics, we can't all be naturals like Tiger Woods. Very few men in my experience are naturals, they acquire the eye from years of mistakes which are often chronicled in family photos. Some of course never learn it. Flusser it seems to me is not painting by numbers, he's just illustrating what works and what doesn't so that people avoid the worst faux pas. I can only say I wish I'd read Flusser's book when I was 22, I'd have saved a lot of money over the years and wouldn't wince whenever I see that picture of me at age 32 wearing a particularly appalling overcoat that was considered very stylish at time. No frilled evening shirts lurking in your family albums?
It would be so much more pleasant to be able to say that there is an Elegance pill that could be prescribed, the condensation of one man’s personal opinions that could be imbibed or some other quick fix available. There doesn’t seem to be one though because it just doesn't work like that. Elegance cannot be acheived by the kind of "paint by numbers" logic or methodology. If it were only that easy!"
Michael: I basically agree with you that at the end of the day the individual develops an eye for these things. But. Surely there's a place for someone to teach technique. Why else would we go golf clinics, we can't all be naturals like Tiger Woods. Very few men in my experience are naturals, they acquire the eye from years of mistakes which are often chronicled in family photos. Some of course never learn it. Flusser it seems to me is not painting by numbers, he's just illustrating what works and what doesn't so that people avoid the worst faux pas. I can only say I wish I'd read Flusser's book when I was 22, I'd have saved a lot of money over the years and wouldn't wince whenever I see that picture of me at age 32 wearing a particularly appalling overcoat that was considered very stylish at time. No frilled evening shirts lurking in your family albums?
-
storeynicholas
Contemporaneous with this thread, in the LL there has been similar critical scrutiny of Alan Flusser in (as they describe themselves) 'blogspots' that I came across for reasons that are not relevant here. I suppose that if Alan Flusser is of a philosophical tun of mind, he'd say to himself 'There is only one thing worse than being talked about.....'
NJS
NJS
-
Guest
fairly, i didn't even liked the movie wall street. but dressing the man and style and the man, are my favorite texts, if i lost them, i would buy them again.
anyway he is behind the scenes most the time. and those black suits were fashionable in New york.
anyway he is behind the scenes most the time. and those black suits were fashionable in New york.
-
- Information
-
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 67 guests