Patch pocket Polos

[alden]

Dopey

Are the patch pockets on Charles's Ulster the ones you mentioned having seen on Polos?

Michael

[dopey]

Dopey

Are the patch pockets on Charles's Ulster the ones you mentioned having seen on Polos?

Michael

It is hard to tell for sure from the resolution of the photo, but it looks like they might. Here is my best attempt at a description, until I can find a photo:
In a normal patch and flapped pocket. the patch is sewn onto the coat quarter and the flap is sewn on to the coat above the patch. On a framed pocket, a patch is attached to the coat and sewn shut on all four sides. A slot is cut (more likely, pre-cut) out of the patch a few inches from the top of the patch to provide access to the pocket. the flap is sewn directly onto the patch, not the coat, above the slot.

This seems to be the traditional way of doing Polo coats, at least in the US, and is rare on other than Polos. I have no idea why any of this is so.

Edit: Here is an example:

Another: and another:

[alden]

Dopey

Hmm I think that would look a bit thick with a heavy cloth. This illustration shows the Polo with a quarter stitched patch pocket.



BTW, I may have found someone to make our camelhair cloth for the coat. Samples are being sent to me. I want to decide on the color between a very pale natural color, an apricot tan or cinnamon brown...anything but the sickly beige available from the distributors.

Michael

[alden]

This seems to be the traditional way of doing Polo coats, at least in the US, and is rare on other than Polos. I have no idea why any of this is so.

Maybe it was easier to make them this way given industrial processes in RTW. To do it the other way means handwork doing the quarter stitch on the patch pocket.

[dopey]

This seems to be the traditional way of doing Polo coats, at least in the US, and is rare on other than Polos. I have no idea why any of this is so.

Maybe it was easier to make them this way given industrial processes in RTW. To do it the other way means handwork doing the quarter stitch on the patch pocket.

Perhaps, and you may be able to make the entire pocket assembly first and then attach it to the coat, which is perhaps easier. But I don't think that is it. The fact that framed pockets seem to be a feature of Polo coats and not much else tells me there is likely another explanation. My guess is that the Polo coats that started the trend here were made that way, and that is what caught on. This is a research job for Tutee. I am sure there are AA or Esquire articles on Polos and that would help. There was once a very good thread on Ask Andy where someone compiled a lot of the history of the coat in the U.S.

[dopey]

Another nice one with framed pockets:

[tteplitzmd]

is quite nice as well, in the photo above.

I have had two makers of overcoats. I found it inexplicably satisfying when I found one of the maker's jackets lined up beautifully beneath their overcoat, with identical lines. The jackets and overcoat were cut by the same tailor, who clearly had a favored lapel line.

[uppercase]

I have a soft spot for camel hair polos.

It was the first overcoat I bought upon finishing school and setting out in the world.

It has that collegiate air, amateurish, before everything became altogether too serious.

I remember I bought it from Rothmans in NYC, a steep discounter.

The original label was cut out as retailer needed to clear inventory and didn't want to diminish the brand by selling it at such a discount. I think I paid $138 at the time.
I'm sure I still have it somewhere as I never throw out anything.

It weighed a ton but it did keep me warm. More importantly I felt quite grand in that coat. I'm going to go look for it tomorrow.

Speaking of Polos, curiously, I spied a very nice polo only yesterday, quite unexpected in this small town. But the poor fellow seemed down on his luck judging from the rest of his clothes, grooming and general appearance. But somehow the Polo coat redeemed him and I hope promised him better times ahead as he had the good fortune to buy one beautiful coat at some earlier time in his life.

The cut of the Oxxford Polo coat in Dopey's post above (the first photo) is fabulous though the color is a bit dark. Importantly, the cloth would seem to swing in this coat rather than hang rigidly when walking.

What is the origin and history of the Polo coat?

[alden]

What is the origin and history of the Polo coat?

The coat was draped over the shoulders of Polo players in India in between chukkas. They were made of camelhair, see illustration above. When the Polo players went to the States to play they brought their coats and they became all the rage as University wear. The style took on many forms, but is based on the Ulster coat.

The coat worn by the homeless person with a nice scarf is sad for the thin, inwardly curved lapels (something we see on Neapolitan coats in general.)

I am not convinced by the American interpretation of the Polo by which any coat that is double breasted and made of a light colored fabric is a Polo. But we all put our money where our taste is, and mine calls for the more traditional version.

Michael Alden

[Lance]

When I think Polo coat, I think A&S rather than Huntsman, Friday night rather than Saturday evening. I don’t suppose drape is the right word, but I think it’s the right feeling. As uppercase mentions in Patch pocket Polos, “the cloth would seem to swing in this coat rather than hang rigidly when walking”. It’s not a coat that needs to be formalized or as Alden says, civilized; rather the opposite. It should be a coat that can be worn as well over a suit or odd jacket and trousers as it can over trousers and a shirt or sweater (or possibly even jeans and boots?). The feeling I have and my aim once we find the right camelhair cloth is to have a coat I can “throw on” over almost anything and feel comfortable. Alden’s two photos at the beginning of Polo Anyone? are still the ones which come closest to my “ideal” Polo. The first stop I’ll make with the cloth is A&S; but it likely will not be my last stop. At any rate, I am looking forward to a wonderful bespoke experience.

[storeynicholas]

Let us not forget, in formulating this coat that polo was probably originally a game played by the Persian cavalry, spreading through Asia and then played especially aggressively by the fierce tribesmen of Gilgit in the North West frontier. There are legends that, sometimes, in celebrating a victory in battle, they used their enemies' severed heads as the ball. No doubt, for this reason, the Gilgit men probably opted out of the the lighter colour options for their polo coats. But if the very light natural cloth turns up in the Cloth Club, I can definitely see us spending 3 months of every year in the bone-chilling cold of Gilgit.
NJS

[alden]

When I think Polo coat, I think A&S rather than Huntsman, Friday night rather than Saturday evening. I don’t suppose drape is the right word, but I think it’s the right feeling. As uppercase mentions in Patch pocket Polos, “the cloth would seem to swing in this coat rather than hang rigidly when walking”. It’s not a coat that needs to be formalized or as Alden says, civilized; rather the opposite. It should be a coat that can be worn as well over a suit or odd jacket and trousers as it can over trousers and a shirt or sweater (or possibly even jeans and boots?). The feeling I have and my aim once we find the right camelhair cloth is to have a coat I can “throw on” over almost anything and feel comfortable. Alden’s two photos at the beginning of Polo Anyone? are still the ones which come closest to my “ideal” Polo. The first stop I’ll make with the cloth is A&S; but it likely will not be my last stop. At any rate, I am looking forward to a wonderful bespoke experience.

Lance.

Could not have said it better myself. We are on the same wavelength. I just hope we can source the cloth.

If we don't find or cannot make the right camelhair, what would be the next choice? I could see a natural color, pale Donegal as a great substitute and that is something we could definitely make. I have a coat coming from the tailors in this kind of Donny and will post it later this month for you all to see.

Cheers

M Alden

[dopey]

. . . I could see a natural color, pale Donegal as a great substitute and that is something we could definitely make. I have a coat coming from the tailors in this kind of Donny and will post it later this month for you all to see.

Cheers

M Alden

A donegal would work well, though the resultant affect would be different.

Part of the reason for my interest in Polos (and it is not new), is the imminent demise of my favorite overcoat. It is a flyfronted single breasted wrap raglan, in a brown, rough tweedy cloth that seems to be some sort of twill that alternates a hard finish with a tight bouclé. While not a donegal, it has that same rough-hewn, yet tight and civilized finish that makes donegals so appealing. What I like about the overcoat is that the raglan sleeves and full cut make it very casual, but the beautiful belted wrap and storm collar give it an elegant drape and swagger. That same elegant ease is what the best Polos manage to convey. What I don't like about my coat is that, having served well since 1984, it is become embarrassingly ragged. The leather covering the belt buckle has long ago vanished leaving bare metal, though you tie, not buckle, the belt. The sleeves have worn through to the point where the interlining or gimp is showing. The same fraying appears at the hem, collar points and other places I probably haven't noticed. And also, there is red paint where I ignored the "Wet Paint" sign on a subway stanchion. On the other hand, except for the matter of degree, most of these defects have been present in some form or another for the last several years so I may get a few more years out of it yet.

That's why I have been looking at Polos for a while and hope to do so for a while longer.

[alden]

The Donegal in question is the one used in the Alden cap in this picture.

While not a donegal, it has that same rough-hewn, yet tight and civilized finish that makes donegals so appealing.

Dopey, you hit that one right on the nose.

Michael

[dopey]

The Donegal in question is the one used in the Alden cap in this picture.

While not a donegal, it has that same rough-hewn, yet tight and civilized finish that makes donegals so appealing.

Dopey, you hit that one right on the nose.

Michael

Speaking of hitting it on the nose, put a belt on yours and change the cloth to my brown don-ouclé and you are wearing my overcoat.

I assume yours has a cut through buttonhole, not a concealed one, at the throat (fly front notwithstanding). I can't see your cuffs, but mine has buttoning tabs at the sleeve end. I don't see the red subway station paint - is that on the back?