Dear All,
I recently splashed out on a bespoke suit. I have to admit that the experience was quite enjoyable, I have my first fitting tomorrow, however it was quite strange. Being a young man (six years younger than thirty), I went shopping in a pair of jeans and a T-shirt (beautifully co-ordinated with a cheap pair of trainers). I asked the gentleman at the desk about ordering a suit, and his expression seemed to be of shock. He explained that they were quite expensive (judging book covers), and I just explained that I was willing to spend a large amount on a quality item. In my view its worth the extra cash, considering how long they last. Some of my Grandfather's suits are still knocking about, he gave one to a local gypsy after he had finished with it, and to this day (about forty years later) he's still the best dressed itinerant in Ireland.
Anyway, after a few minutes they brought me into the side room of the building, to have a chat with their Head of Propaganda. He was very nice, however, he seemed to be reading straight off the script. He went on and on about how the suit would make me feel powerful when I walked into a room, in the knowledge that my suit would be the best. To be honest, I felt a little uncomfortable with the spiel. I was afraid modesty had being replaced with arrogance (probably due to the Yuppy cultural invasion of the 80s, plus 90s). I have to admit that I did let out a chuckle at one stage, which must have been heard, as he quickly changed the style of presentation. He asked what I was after, I explained that I wanted a modest, double breasted, non-imposing suit that would be comfortable, traditional, and practical. I picked the fabric (un-patterned dark navy (just off black)- I know its unadventurous, but it looks best to me).
Next, I was introduced to my cutter, who came to measure me. She was very nice, and we got on well (I have my first fitting tomorrow, yet again the t-shirt/jeans combo invasion will be unleashed, I quite enjoy their expressions when I go in). To be honest, I'm leaving nearly everything to her, I know very little about suits, which is half the reason I went down the Row in the first place. My work means the suit will get a lot of use, however being young, it won't be used within my social circles. I believe that this is a major change from the good old days. In my Grandfather's day it was acceptable to wear suits all day (differing dress throughout the day). In my Father's time, it became less acceptable, however still common. For my generation, it isn't really acceptable (with the exception of work, or the mess, or after six in the country). To be honest, I would love to the wear suits more, however, I still have to show consideration for my peers. None of them dress in suits socially, so neither do I. Later, I may have the opportunity, but now its reserved for work (and any social occasion I can find an excuse for it to be acceptable).
With this in mind, I was wondering how many under twenty-fives actually buy bespoke, and why? Also when would it be acceptable to wear, if all your friends and peers, generally just wear bog standard clothing (at one stage suits were bog standard, conventions change quickly, but never fully)? Also, it is worth considering if the industry actually has any future in the demographic (I'm a little bit of an exception as I went to it). As I age, I will clearly have more opportunity to enjoy bespoke, but now its a hidden pleasure.
With my regards,
David
P.S. I added a poll.
Young and Bespoke
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Jordan Marc
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David,
Dressing well is indeed a 'hidden pleasure' and should remain so throughout your life. It's nobody's business but your own who tailors you.Keep it to yourself, not only because you don't want to let your friends or curious strangers know how much you spend on clothes but also because you don't want to see someone else wearing the same suit. Time was a tailor wouldn't think of making the same rig for another man within a thousand mile radius of a particular customer, though these days many a tailor is less reputable.
Build a relationship with a tailor, though chances are you will move on to other tailors throughout your life. These artists and craftsmen don't live forever, y'know, and your tastes will change ... not to mention your waistline and skeletal structure. Try to keep your weight within five pounds of where it should be ideally. Your wardrobe will last longer.
Enjoy the pleasure of being well-dressed. It's simultaneously fun, addictive and intoxicating -- from head to toe.
JMB
Dressing well is indeed a 'hidden pleasure' and should remain so throughout your life. It's nobody's business but your own who tailors you.Keep it to yourself, not only because you don't want to let your friends or curious strangers know how much you spend on clothes but also because you don't want to see someone else wearing the same suit. Time was a tailor wouldn't think of making the same rig for another man within a thousand mile radius of a particular customer, though these days many a tailor is less reputable.
Build a relationship with a tailor, though chances are you will move on to other tailors throughout your life. These artists and craftsmen don't live forever, y'know, and your tastes will change ... not to mention your waistline and skeletal structure. Try to keep your weight within five pounds of where it should be ideally. Your wardrobe will last longer.
Enjoy the pleasure of being well-dressed. It's simultaneously fun, addictive and intoxicating -- from head to toe.
JMB
JMB and David,
Two excellent posts. Thanks
M Alden
PS Welcome David
Two excellent posts. Thanks
M Alden
PS Welcome David
In the past it wouldn't have been that uncommon. At least, it would have belonged in the same category as owning your own car today. And cars are much more expensive.
As for wearing a lounge suit, just get used to it, so that it becomes second nature to you. Wear it out in the evening to cocktails and drinks. The ladies will be drawn to it like a magnet.
As for wearing a lounge suit, just get used to it, so that it becomes second nature to you. Wear it out in the evening to cocktails and drinks. The ladies will be drawn to it like a magnet.
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carl browne
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Excellent posts, all!
DRHF
I was 28.
I discovered that I had a closet full of expensive suits I absolutely detested. They were RTW, and they didn't fit. I seems that in the ready-to-wear market, the best clothes are not cut for young men in good physical condition. The 42 Long suit coat comes with size 38 trousers, and irrespective of what the salesmen say, trousers cannot be "recut to fit" a 32 inch waist. At the time, bespoke suits were about double the price I had paid for RTW, and I came to the conclusion that I'd rather have five bespoke suits that fit than ten RTW suits that don't. I never went back.
I don't wear suits when off duty either. Have you given any thought to tweed or other patterned jackets with flannels or even jeans? I'm especially fond of wearing bespoke jackets with beat-up 501s.
Age has nothing to do with it. Your body does not come off the peg, and there's no reason in the world you're clothes should.
DRHF
I was 28.
I discovered that I had a closet full of expensive suits I absolutely detested. They were RTW, and they didn't fit. I seems that in the ready-to-wear market, the best clothes are not cut for young men in good physical condition. The 42 Long suit coat comes with size 38 trousers, and irrespective of what the salesmen say, trousers cannot be "recut to fit" a 32 inch waist. At the time, bespoke suits were about double the price I had paid for RTW, and I came to the conclusion that I'd rather have five bespoke suits that fit than ten RTW suits that don't. I never went back.
I don't wear suits when off duty either. Have you given any thought to tweed or other patterned jackets with flannels or even jeans? I'm especially fond of wearing bespoke jackets with beat-up 501s.
Age has nothing to do with it. Your body does not come off the peg, and there's no reason in the world you're clothes should.
DRHF, congratulations on making this move. As you develop a relationship with your Cutter you will find that a whole new world of clothes will open before you.
One word of advice - much as it goes against the grain, take formal shirt and pair of shoes with you - for fittings, that will enable your cutter to make the best suit for you in all the fine details. After all you will probably not wear it with trainers or tee shirt over much so this will a benefit.
It would be fascinating to see pictures of you wearing the finished garment and more on all the detail you have selected - braces, button or zip fly and pockets in coat and trousers- Whilst many of us are set in our ways a new perspective can often shake one's thoughts.
One word of advice - much as it goes against the grain, take formal shirt and pair of shoes with you - for fittings, that will enable your cutter to make the best suit for you in all the fine details. After all you will probably not wear it with trainers or tee shirt over much so this will a benefit.
It would be fascinating to see pictures of you wearing the finished garment and more on all the detail you have selected - braces, button or zip fly and pockets in coat and trousers- Whilst many of us are set in our ways a new perspective can often shake one's thoughts.
Last edited by DFR on Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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carl browne
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Extremely good advice!
And while you're at it, bring all the things you usually carry in your pockets.
Your suit can be adjusted so your things will not appear as bulges.
And while you're at it, bring all the things you usually carry in your pockets.
Your suit can be adjusted so your things will not appear as bulges.
Dear All,
Many thanks for all of the replies, they have been very informative and well thought out.
I have had a very busy day, including my first fitting. I have to say that I was very surprised by how much work has clearly, already gone into the suit. I got to try it on (the skeletal version, no lining, buttons, and with thick twine set into it), and I can already say that it is by far the best fitting garment I have ever worn. Unfortunately, I have lost quite a bit of weight in two and a half weeks. Apparently two inches from the waist, and one inch from the chest. However, the cutter said it should pose no problem, and such changes can be addressed in the four fittings. The trousers where the most impressive, too me. They looked absolutely incredible, even if a little loose (they where the closest to the finished product). My cutter made some suggestions on taking in different parts of the suit, to which I agreed with her fully. I'll have my next fitting early next year. It is very James Bond esque, a dark and hansom affair (with the exception of the man in it).
In answer to some of your replies:
I agree whole-heartedly with JMBs statement, that "It's nobody's business but your own who tailors you.Keep it to yourself, not only because you don't want to let your friends or curious strangers know how much you spend on clothes but also because you don't want to see someone else wearing the same suit." I feel that most people would probably respond to such a purchase with distain (probably the result of envy), and will take the advise on board.
In response to Sator's "The ladies will be drawn to it like a magnet," I can only hope, and if you have experienced such a reaction, I would appreciate some numbers...
Carl, I already wear suit jackets, or sometimes tweed with jeans for social outings (mainly involving drink!) and I like that the look, as it works in any situation, whilst still maintaining the casual look.
Sorry DFR, you could be waiting a while for a photo of the suit, its due in May... and I feel that I shouldn't really post it, considering JMB's statement, although pride and vanity in it may turn me later.
Carl, I'm not planning to carry anything in the suit. I have a ticket pocket, which I plan to use for my bank card, and Sator's list of promiscuous women (hopefully it will arrive by early May, I am expecting many Volumes, along the size of Who's Who would suffice for the suits 20 year life-span!!!).
Regards Again,
David
Many thanks for all of the replies, they have been very informative and well thought out.
I have had a very busy day, including my first fitting. I have to say that I was very surprised by how much work has clearly, already gone into the suit. I got to try it on (the skeletal version, no lining, buttons, and with thick twine set into it), and I can already say that it is by far the best fitting garment I have ever worn. Unfortunately, I have lost quite a bit of weight in two and a half weeks. Apparently two inches from the waist, and one inch from the chest. However, the cutter said it should pose no problem, and such changes can be addressed in the four fittings. The trousers where the most impressive, too me. They looked absolutely incredible, even if a little loose (they where the closest to the finished product). My cutter made some suggestions on taking in different parts of the suit, to which I agreed with her fully. I'll have my next fitting early next year. It is very James Bond esque, a dark and hansom affair (with the exception of the man in it).
In answer to some of your replies:
I agree whole-heartedly with JMBs statement, that "It's nobody's business but your own who tailors you.Keep it to yourself, not only because you don't want to let your friends or curious strangers know how much you spend on clothes but also because you don't want to see someone else wearing the same suit." I feel that most people would probably respond to such a purchase with distain (probably the result of envy), and will take the advise on board.
In response to Sator's "The ladies will be drawn to it like a magnet," I can only hope, and if you have experienced such a reaction, I would appreciate some numbers...
Carl, I already wear suit jackets, or sometimes tweed with jeans for social outings (mainly involving drink!) and I like that the look, as it works in any situation, whilst still maintaining the casual look.
Sorry DFR, you could be waiting a while for a photo of the suit, its due in May... and I feel that I shouldn't really post it, considering JMB's statement, although pride and vanity in it may turn me later.
Carl, I'm not planning to carry anything in the suit. I have a ticket pocket, which I plan to use for my bank card, and Sator's list of promiscuous women (hopefully it will arrive by early May, I am expecting many Volumes, along the size of Who's Who would suffice for the suits 20 year life-span!!!).
Regards Again,
David
Hi David
I think that JMB's views are perhaps wrong and whilst there will be 'secrets' between cutter and client this forum does depend upon us all exchanging thoughts and sharing our ideas.
I can appreciate your not wanting to have photographs or it being dificult to arrange but would you care to describe the details of your suit o that the views of a clearly knowledgeable young man can shake our entrenched way? For example you say that you do no not intend to carry anything - no pockets save the ticket pocket - inside or out or what?
It is only through the interchange of ideas that we all grow in knowledge.
I think that JMB's views are perhaps wrong and whilst there will be 'secrets' between cutter and client this forum does depend upon us all exchanging thoughts and sharing our ideas.
I can appreciate your not wanting to have photographs or it being dificult to arrange but would you care to describe the details of your suit o that the views of a clearly knowledgeable young man can shake our entrenched way? For example you say that you do no not intend to carry anything - no pockets save the ticket pocket - inside or out or what?
It is only through the interchange of ideas that we all grow in knowledge.
Dear DFR,
Very well, the description of the suit:
Jacket
Single breasted (I know I said double above, I must have been asleep typing).
Navy Blue (just off black material, I don't remember the name of the fabric but I very much liked it).
Two inner pockets, one ticket, and the standard three pocket outer.
The lining is a single shade lighter than the Jacket's fabric.
Two buttons, made of horn.
Four buttons on the Cuffs, two real, two fake.
14 ounce fabric
The trousers are unpleated of the same material, with a single back right pocket, and two side pockets.
I intend not to carry much to save the suit straining, sorry if I failed to explain this clearly.
Very well, the description of the suit:
Jacket
Single breasted (I know I said double above, I must have been asleep typing).
Navy Blue (just off black material, I don't remember the name of the fabric but I very much liked it).
Two inner pockets, one ticket, and the standard three pocket outer.
The lining is a single shade lighter than the Jacket's fabric.
Two buttons, made of horn.
Four buttons on the Cuffs, two real, two fake.
14 ounce fabric
The trousers are unpleated of the same material, with a single back right pocket, and two side pockets.
I intend not to carry much to save the suit straining, sorry if I failed to explain this clearly.
Well, which is it?DRHF wrote:. . .I went shopping in a pair of jeans and a T-shirt (beautifully co-ordinated with a cheap pair of trainers)..
. .(I have my first fitting tomorrow, yet again the t-shirt/jeans combo invasion will be unleashed, I quite enjoy their expressions when I go in).
. . . To be honest, I would love to the wear suits more, however, I still have to show consideration for my peers. None of them dress in suits socially, so neither do I. . . .
You claim you would love to dress in suits, but cannot out of deference to the habits of your peers.
Yet you seem to delight in showing up at a Savile Row shop in jeans an a T-Shirt just to annoy the stuffy suited tailors.
Maybe, your peers have you right.
Last edited by dopey on Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ProfMoriarty
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DRHF: This comment, along with your age prompts me to add the the one (unique, I think) thought that has been going through my mind in reading this thread over the last couple of days. First, while you pose your request for help for your own reasons, it provides the rest of us the opportunity to soak up a lot of wisdom from the insights that some very sagacious fellows are sharing with you. I am more than twice your age and only gotten "serious" about my dress in the last couple of years. Economics was one factor. "Wisdom"/"life experience" is another. Finally, I have inherited an entire wardrobe of great clothing that I am slowly going through, adopting/adapting and, selectively, altering (passed down to me from someone like your grandfather.) I have largely relied to RTW or MTM clothes throughout my life with no real complaints. As my godson says: "It is what it is." Now I am comtemplating the investment of financial resources (as well as the time, thought and care) for tailoring and for bespoke (probably shoes to start).DRHF wrote: Unfortunately, I have lost quite a bit of weight in two and a half weeks. Apparently two inches from the waist, and one inch from the chest. However, the cutter said it should pose no problem, and such changes can be addressed in the four fittings.
I am square up against a very basic consideration/issue which the comment you have made (highlighted above) raises. My weight bounces around quite a bit. Over the last several years it has varied from 175-215 pounds. This is not only not heathy, it is hell on trying to assemble (without benefit of a minor fortune) a good solid wardrobe. After a bit of honest reflection, a conversation with my doctor and a heart to heart with my (extremely fit) godson (his friends call him a "gym rat"), I have embarked on a diet and workout program with a goal of 178 pounds. I am not fad dieting and only adpoting exercises that are (relatively) easy on the body and (relatively) enjoyable to do. I have resigned myself to the fact that, barring ill health or injury, I am on this regimen of daily exercise and diet for the rest of my life. (I do take Sundays off and "cheat" if I want to.) It is working (am more than half way there) and I am comfortable that it will work longterm. I accept that it is not only necessary to my goal of becoming "a sharp dressed (gentle)man", it is necessary for my physical health. My intention when I hit the magic 175-180 is to move to maintenance mode and, at that point, pursue bespoke in earnest.
My only thought for your consideration, is that I wish I had been more aware of these fitness issues when younger (starting around your age). While my godson has different taste in clothes than I, my observations is that staying in shape (what the ladies call "watching/keeping their figures") is an integral part of his "program" of dressing stylishly and (for him) well. I guess what I am saying is that I detect an earnest interest developing your taste for good clothes and dressing well; I would suggest that you start now to slowly adopt/evolve a lifestyle of exercise and eating/diet that will help you succeed in what the sages here at the LL will tell you is a life long journey.
Best of Luck, Jack.
Hi DavidDRHF wrote:Dear DFR,
Very well, the description of the suit:
Jacket
Single breasted (I know I said double above, I must have been asleep typing).
Navy Blue (just off black material, I don't remember the name of the fabric but I very much liked it).
Two inner pockets, one ticket, and the standard three pocket outer.
The lining is a single shade lighter than the Jacket's fabric.
Two buttons, made of horn.
Four buttons on the Cuffs, two real, two fake.
14 ounce fabric
The trousers are unpleated of the same material, with a single back right pocket, and two side pockets.
I intend not to carry much to save the suit straining, sorry if I failed to explain this clearly.
That sounds a simple yet sophisticated suit with thought. The 14oz weight is especially unusual these days and will certainly make for a suit which hangs and wears well - and a pleasure to wear too. The temptation to keep the pockets simple is something I am returning to and so your move is a helpful prompt.
Keep us posted on how it works out
Regards
Duncan
Would braces be considered an affectation at the OP's age?on all the detail you have selected - braces
Simon wrote:Would braces be considered an affectation at the OP's age?on all the detail you have selected - braces
I would agree that braces would be wrong. Whilst not an affectation they woiuld not be appropriate for the suit David has so admirably specified.
A younger man can wear them if he has the right woirking circumstances but those are restricted especially with modern air-conditioned offcies etc. My preference is to have two pairs of trousers with one or two suits, with and without braces.
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