Valeting

[couch]

1. Very expensive, including the Presiva consumables. Lists for $1.5K - $2K. Liquid is $20+ per bottle.
2. Probably does what hanging a suit up in a steamy bathroom would do as far as wrinkle removal.
3. I'd be very leery of the Presiva liquid, which gets misted on the clothes. They say one flavor is for "crisp" clothes so that they stand up, and another is for clothes "born to flow." This suggests to me that there is some deposition of product on the cloth. Not good, I would expect, for fine woolens, and hard to remove. They say you can't use plain tap water, which will "clog" the unit. If that is a mineral problem, distilled water might work, but the site doesn't say.
4. A good steaming and airing will remove most odors. I would bet that this adds a "fresh" scent that also masks some.
5. If it uses enough steam or warm moisture to relax wrinkles, creases will also soften some. You'll still have to press trousers occasionally to restore the crease.
6.I wonder how evenly the weight tensions the cloth to encourage the wrinkles to hang out. Stretching or uneven tension would not be desirable.
7. But if it operates as advertised, it has the advantage that you can leave it unattended.

My impression is that the main market for this is as an add-on for builders to include in new upscale homes as a luxury perk.

[carl browne]

Couch

Probably good to be a little skeptical. I think I'll pass it up.

You're quite right about the steamy bathroom. I was travelling this week--had a flannel suit that looked like an unmade bed after the suitcase, etc. Fifteen minutes hanging next to a hot shower and it was almost perfect.

In an earlier post, I mentioned something called the Corby trouser press. Are you familiar with this?

www.john-corby.com

[BdeRWest]

Gentlemen -

On another note - and looking at the subject line - how do you pronounce "valet" and where are you from? I pronounce it a certain way and steadfastly and proudly stand by it. My wife cringes! Your thoughts.

Trey

Not being a native speaker, I rely on a good dictionary for RP.





Do you steadfastly and proudly favour the English or the French variant? The French one ends like the English pronunciation for “café”.

Gentlemen:

I find it interesting the Britons would change the pronunciation of "valet" whilst steadfastly pronouncing "restaurant" without the "t." I do not mean to imply all Britons do this, but a vast majority I have known always pronounce it "rest-rAUN." Most interesting.

As for me, I usually follow the French pronunciations, either because it makes me feel more sohpisticated or I really am a snob, as She likes to accuse.

[couch]

In an earlier post, I mentioned something called the Corby trouser press. Are you familiar with this?

www.john-corby.com

I'm not sure I've used this brand, but I have used something that looked much like it in rented flats when traveling. If you relax wrinkles by hanging in humid or steamy air, these presses can do a pretty good job of restoring the crease. I find them a bit fussy for home use--it can be hard to ensure that the crease lines are exact (to avoid the dread double-creasing) and one can't reduce the pressure over seams and lining edges, as one can with a hand iron. But they're quite handy for light touch-ups and when traveling, again mainly because they work unattended once the trousers are carefully "loaded."

[shindeco]

Trey,

I also pronounce the 't', but only when referring to a manservant (which is not a form I use that often, unfortunately!) or when using the verb. I figure that since it's cognate with "varlet" (actually, according to my dictionary, it's a "variant" of it), it deserves the old English pronunciation.

Curiously, though, the teenager who parks cars gets no 't' from me.

[jefferyd]

.


I'm told you can press your own clothes with an electric steam iron and a sheet of muslin to protect the finish of the cloth. Is this true? is there a source for me to learn how to do this myself without potentially ruining $$$$ worth of bespoke clothing?

Note that this thread

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=88504

is entitled "How to touch up" and not "How to press". Learning how to press properly is a long and arduous task, but it is possible to touch up without ruining your suits. But please please please don't steam a jacket! You tailor spent hours shaping the fibers in carefully controlled ways and steaming wrecks it all.

[storeynicholas]

Gentlemen -

On another note - and looking at the subject line - how do you pronounce "valet" and where are you from? I pronounce it a certain way and steadfastly and proudly stand by it. My wife cringes! Your thoughts.

Trey

Not being a native speaker, I rely on a good dictionary for RP.





Do you steadfastly and proudly favour the English or the French variant? The French one ends like the English pronunciation for “café”.

Gentlemen:

I find it interesting the Britons would change the pronunciation of "valet" whilst steadfastly pronouncing "restaurant" without the "t." I do not mean to imply all Britons do this, but a vast majority I have known always pronounce it "rest-rAUN." Most interesting.

As for me, I usually follow the French pronunciations, either because it makes me feel more sohpisticated or I really am a snob, as She likes to accuse.

The people that I wonder at are those who say 'restaurong'. I keep the t just as I'd say Paris (English version) and Rheims (the same) but, for some reason, I would attempt the French with Lyons and Marseilles as 'Lions' and 'Marsales' just sound silly. No rhyme or reason to it really.
NJS

[couch]

.


I'm told you can press your own clothes with an electric steam iron and a sheet of muslin to protect the finish of the cloth. Is this true? is there a source for me to learn how to do this myself without potentially ruining $$$$ worth of bespoke clothing?

Note that this thread

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=88504

is entitled "How to touch up" and not "How to press". Learning how to press properly is a long and arduous task, but it is possible to touch up without ruining your suits. But please please please don't steam a jacket! You tailor spent hours shaping the fibers in carefully controlled ways and steaming wrecks it all.

Jefferyd: Thanks for calling our attention to this post, and reminding us about the risks to a carefully worked garment from careless steaming. I use a steamer only on trousers, as a "spot" relaxer, supporting the weight of the trouser, not holding the wand too close, and removing the steam promptly, before any obvious distortions such as you illustrate. I then finish the touch-up with a dry iron and press cloth to remove any residual moisture and restore the crease. As I said earlier I don't use a steamer on coats/jackets, except occasionally on the rear skirt (watching out for shaping). In my experience, the wrinkles in a coat hang out on their own if given time.

Is the amount of "steam" (warm mist) from 15 minutes of a shower running in a bathroom really on the same order of danger? By the time the mist infuses the garment I'd imagine it would not be much different than a representative misty day in Houston or Seattle. One might want a dry touch-up, but will all the shaping really be lost?

On the other hand, I've been caught twice in complete Gene-Kelly-in-Singin'-in-the-Rain downpours where my trouser legs (one Lesser Golden Bale worsted flannel) and shoes were completely saturated; just sodden. The shoes recovered without noticeable change, but the trousers, despite air drying, careful brushing, and pressing as you suggest, have never been quite the same in surface finish, though the change is subtle. I've meant to try to find a tailor to see if he would/could restore the uniformity of finish (and the creases, which with my lighter iron seem not to want to be retained as well). Thank heaven my topcoat protected the suit coat from direct wetting!

[jefferyd]

Is the amount of "steam" (warm mist) from 15 minutes of a shower running in a bathroom really on the same order of danger?

If there is enough humidity to remove any wrinkles (presumably the reason one would hang a suit in a bathroom) it is enough to undo the shaping. We are stretching and shrinking the wool into a shape which is not at all natural to it. A woman, having just come out the hair salon, would be no more inclined to stand in a steamy bathroom, for exactly the same reason. It is quite possibly the cause of a lot of the collar disasters that I was on about in another thread somewhere.... (would someone please tell me how one keeps track of them all? I get quite lost!)

[couch]

Thanks, then, I'll be instructed. But your statement suggests that if wrinkles hang out in the closet between wearings (without applied moisture), the shaping must also be undergoing reversion. Surely there must be some degree of permanent distortion worked into the flat cloth during making, so that the fibers and the weave "remember" the modified structure to some point (a "perm"?). And presumably heat and moisture from the body reinforce and modify that initial distortion? Otherwise, what would it mean when tailors say that a garment grows to shape itself to the wearer over time?

Your SF post suggests that the tailor's stretching is hard to undo, while their shrinking is fragile and can be easily lost. Do I have that right? Is it the loss of deliberate shrinking in the collar that would contribute to the disasters you refer to?

Thanks for adding to our understanding here!

[jefferyd]

Thanks, then, I'll be instructed. But your statement suggests that if wrinkles hang out in the closet between wearings (without applied moisture), the shaping must also be undergoing reversion. Surely there must be some degree of permanent distortion worked into the flat cloth during making, so that the fibers and the weave "remember" the modified structure to some point (a "perm"?). And presumably heat and moisture from the body reinforce and modify that initial distortion? Otherwise, what would it mean when tailors say that a garment grows to shape itself to the wearer over time?

Your SF post suggests that the tailor's stretching is hard to undo, while their shrinking is fragile and can be easily lost. Do I have that right? Is it the loss of deliberate shrinking in the collar that would contribute to the disasters you refer to?

Thanks for adding to our understanding here!

Wool fibers are naturally crimped, which helps them retain their shape. THey also absorb moisture and they lose a lot of tensile strength and stability when moist and are thus very malleable. During the finishing process, setting agents, often a chemical setting agent known as Siroset, is used to stabilize the woven fabric, like a perm setting agent. The finished cloth now has natural and chemically-induced resistance to distortion, which is why an 18-pound iron is used in the finish pressing. Most wrinkle are he result of minor pressure and humidity and not enough to "re-set" the fabric and so will largely fall out on their own- the fabric returns to its "set" state. In tailoring we use humidity to relax the fibers, we use heat and pressure to "re-set" them in a new shape. Some areas are shrunk while others are stretched, but is never more than the conditions used to set the fabric during finishing so the shape is only semi-permanent; so long as the fiber is dry and cool the shape will be retained.

In humid climates the seams can blow; they get puffy and where we shrank fullness there can be puckering; areas that had been stretched can relax. To counter this many manufacturers and tailors started using Siroset during making-up- we would spray the seam to be pressed in the hopes that it would be more permanent but it did not hold up- the heat and temperature settings used in tailoring were not enough to "over-ride" the original set. Some tailors still use it, though. Both the shrinking and the stretching are susceptible to damage by humidity but it is where the fabric has been shrunk, such as at the shoulder seam and around the breakpoint of the lapel that it is most visibly obvious when the garment has been exposed to humidity. Here is a before and after shot that illustrate one of the kinds of shaping from stretching- we stretch the top sleeve so that we can conceal the inseam. The first photo is how the top sleeve would sit naturally if it were sewn without manipulation, the second shows a a stretched top sleeve. I think it's pretty self-explanatory but let me know if it is not.




If I hang this sleeve in a humid bathroom the fibers will relax and want to hang straight again, like in the first photo, and often a little break will develop in the lower portion of the sleeve. You may never have noticed it but I find it infuriating. The very same principle is used in the construction of the top collar, except a more extreme degree of curve, and thus stretching, is required; if the top collar is less stretched, and thus less curved, the collar will have a tendency to pull away from the neck. This is a great amount of tension which, left alone, sits fine; it is a given that a tight top collar will lift away from the chest- it is my theory that what once may have been a well-fitting and well-constructed top collar develops tension when exposed to humidity and the "artificial" shape is relaxed, like a taught elastic springing back when released. Ever since I stopped using the stretch-and-fit method of crafting a top collar in favor of an engineered one I stopped having trouble with them.

J