Elephant leather?

[radicaldog]

I have a very old pair of my father's gloves. Unfortunately they are now really falling apart, and I'd very much like to replace them. My mother claims they are made of elephan leather. Now I'm not quite sure as to whether that's true, but they do not resemble any other kind of leather I've ever seen: thick and resilient, yet supple, and wonderfully textured. At any rate, is elephant leather even legal these days? If so, where can I find gloves and other products in this material?

[storeynicholas]

I have no idea about the availability of legally obtained elephant leather; although there are certainly old items made from these creatures and my wife's family has elephants' feet umbrella stands but they predate control of killing elephants. Could you anyway put up a picture. There were many leathers once used for gloves - including dogskin.
NJS

[carl browne]

I'm so glad you brought this up.

I still have a few dozen snow-leopard pelts from my recent shooting trip to Tibet. While I'm using a few of them to line my trench-coat, I'd be happy to make the rest of them available to fellow London Loungers for a fair price.

I also have a number of Komoto Dragon skins, which would make up into excellent belts, and several sets of narwhal-tusk coat-buttons.

And while this is probably the wrong thread to discuss this, I also have some game-birds that are absolutely delicious, dressed, wrapped and flash-frozen. Please indicate your preference: Northern Spotted Owl, Golden Eagle, or California Condor. (I prefer the Spotted Owl--it's not quite so gamey.)

[carl browne]

I know the African elephants are protected. I wonder about the Asian variety, which are used as beasts of burden.

Do old elephants go to the knackers?

Perhaps there's a source.

[carl browne]

I find baby White Rhino to make the best gloves. Very hard wearing.

[carl browne]

Radicaldog:

I think there's only one way to solve the mystery of the elephant (?) gloves. Cut off a small piece of the leather and send it out for DNA testing.

I just don't know if the rest of us can be satisfied otherwise.

I know a lab here in California that I can enthusiastically recommend. They've been a great help to me more than once--they've saved me millions in child support payments. In fact, if it weren't for them, I should be posting this from prison.

Please let me know if you want me to send their information to you.

[Costi]

Now, Carl Browne, did you take your medicine today?

[storeynicholas]

I also have some game-birds that are absolutely delicious, dressed, wrapped and flash-frozen. Please indicate your preference: Northern Spotted Owl, Golden Eagle, or California Condor. (I prefer the Spotted Owl--it's not quite so gamey.)

These are not gamebirds, they are raptors and, although I understand your point, I am not entirely sure that anyone is intending to shoot an elephant just to make a pair of gloves - or at all! There are still things, made long ago, of material that derives from creatures that are protected today and I do not see that the current possessors of these things deserve to be subjected to disapprobation.
NJS

[Jordan Marc]

Carl:

There's a story that John Hunter Lobb tells about a man who walked into 9 St. James with a roll of hide under his arm. When unrolled the hide turned out to be an elephant ear, which is thinner and more supple than flank or backside cuts. The man asked Lobb if something could be made of the ear, and that's how Lobb started making elephant derbys.

Time was elephants were on the endangered species list in Africa, due to the wholesale slaughter of the beasts for ivory. There was a warehouse packed to the rafters with piles of the stuff that was confiscated by the authorities, but a wiley dealer from the East bought the entire inventory to satisfy the desire of Asians who have a longstanding passion for ivory jewellery and carved ornaments. What a killing! In America there's an embargo on ivory, unless you can prove it's at least 100 years old. If not, Customs will confiscate it, impose a stiff fine, and put your name on a watch list.

Back to the beasts. Being designated as 'endangered' allowed the elephants to fourish exponentially. And they became a nuisance. While foraging for food, a small herd can decimate a forest in record time. At the evergrowing pleas of starving farmers who depend on the land for the needs of their villages, the African government took the elephants off the list and allowed open hunting (read: slaughter) to thin the herd. Nothing like warmly inviting the big game hunters and poachers back to the preserve.

Regarding your question about elephant gloves, there are two master artisans of the craft you might consider: Daniel Storto (www.danielstorto.com) and Dorothy Gaspar (www.gaspargloves.com).
Both do work for the movies and both take private commissions. Contact each of them and have a chat. And don't be surprised if they suggest something a bit more graceful and flexible than Dumbo hide.

JMB

[carl browne]

[quote][/quote]There are still things, made long ago, of material that derives from creatures that are protected today and I do not see that the current possessors of these things deserve to be subjected to disapprobation.

Nor do I.

But I must say I find this thread very amusing.

[pvpatty]

I did spy an elephant foot table at the Queensland Club today, but if the leather on that was anything to go by, I'm not sure how suitable the enormously pebbled texture would be for gloves (though I suppose that the rest of the animal would be more smooth).

Also, I do recall stumbling across a website a while back that offered trips to Africa during which elephants could be hunted. I remember a claim about "sustainable quotas." I'll see if I can dig up a link.

[culverwood]

I have an elephant leather wallet and an elephant split portfolio. Both items were bought while I was in Africa and as has been mentioned since SITES made the trade in ivory illegal the elephant population in many parts of Africa is now of a size that culling is required. If one is to cull an animal it is best to use all the parts for food or other purpose.

These double standards are interesting, where do you think calf's leather, crocodile or cordovan come from and when tucking in to a juicy steak do you really thing it is vegetarian?

[pvpatty]

Also, I do recall stumbling across a website a while back that offered trips to Africa during which elephants could be hunted. I remember a claim about "sustainable quotas." I'll see if I can dig up a link.

Here is the link I was referring to. Be warned that it is a little grotesque, and probably not for those of you who are great animal lovers, but it shows that elephant are still being hunted and presumably that their leather is available. The photographs also illustrate to good effect the different textures across the elephant hide.

http://www.hunt-africa.com/botswana-hun ... erview.php

[Costi]

I eat meat, I wear leather and I agree with culverwood that, if an animal needs to be killed, it would be senseless not to use what can be used of it.
I can perfectly understand that someone likes to eat game meat and will hunt an animal for this purpose, under certain circumstances (time of year etc.). I can also perfectly understand that, in certain parts of the Earth, certain animal populations need to be kept under control for ecological reasons or to defend human establishments, and someone HAS to do it.
What I will probably (and hopefully) never understand is how anyone WANTS to be the one to do it; then carefully set the shot animal several times one's size into a submissive position at one's feet and finally take a picture with a satisfied grin on one's face. I think I'd have nightmares for a year if I witnessed that, let alone do it myself for the "pleasure" of it. I suppose it is pictures like these that turn a quiet citizen into a militant activist for animals' rights...

[rjman]

I think that shoemakers do occasionally get bits of culled elephant leather. Gomez had some. It was legally available although perhaps CITES would complicate its travel between nations.