Another newbie crystalizing his opinion -- shirt maker

[ks]

Like Sta in his post below, this is my first post, and I am also a relative newbie to bespoke tailoring. I am in the United States. While I have ordered bespoke shirts once before from an American tailor, I decided to take the plunge and order bespoke shirts from an English tailor.

I chose one who travels to the United States a couple of times a year. The gentleman who travels is not the actual shirtmaker (he makes suits), but he simply takes the measurements for a tailor who he says also serves as the shirt maker for a number of Jermyn Street shops.

I recently received an email stating that "our shirt cutter has requested front and side profile photo for his configuration notes. The image must include your head and hips. Please email a digital image as soon as possible."

Is this the normal procedure? This struck me as odd. Am I simply not used to the way the bespoke shirt making process is done? If you believe I should go with another shirt maker (I am not afraid of minimums), can you suggest one who travels to San Francisco?

Thank you.

[Scot]

May we know the name of the tailor?

Sean O'Flynn makes shirts for Huntsman and New & Lingwood. He also uses photographs in the process. If it is Sean then I am happy to recommend him, although I don't know how well it will all work in the absence of personal contact.

[ks]

I believe that this may be the shirt maker. I have an email out to my tailor asking him to confirm the name, and I will post it as soon as he replies. My tailor is Jonathan Quearney, http://www.jonathanquearney.com/.

[Costi]

Dear ks,

Welcome to the Lounge!
It sounds to me like your shirtmaker is a scrupulous one who does his or her best to ensure that, in spite of never having seen or measured you and in absence of any fittings, the shirt(s) are as close as possible to the normal results of bespoke orders; by that I mean that the person who actually cuts the shirts should at least be present when your measures are taken, if not take them personally, and give you (at least) one fitting. It is quite a bit more difficult to make a good shirt without a fitting and very difficult to make one without ever having seen the client (unless it is a copy of an existing well fitting shirt). So this request does not sound unreasonable to me.
However, in order for you to have a point of reference, I would advise you to try to find a local bespoke shirtmaker, not necessarily a big operation, and have a shirt made the right way. Then you will be able to compare (quality, prices, convenience) and choose what you like.

[andreyb]

KS, my educated guess is that your shirtmaker is Russel & Hodge (http://www.russellandhodge.com).

Andrey

[Mark Seitelman]

I recently received an email stating that "our shirt cutter has requested front and side profile photo for his configuration notes. The image must include your head and hips. Please email a digital image as soon as possible."

Is this the normal procedure? This struck me as odd. Am I simply not used to the way the bespoke shirt making process is done? If you believe I should go with another shirt maker (I am not afraid of minimums), can you suggest one who travels to San Francisco?

Thank you.

Bespoke and MTM makers may take photos. Photography does not mean either a poor or superior manufacture.

Shirtmakers may take photos for a number of reasons, such as

1. The person that measures you and fits you does not make the shirt or suit. The actual maker/cutter/shirtmaker/factory may want a photo since the pattern maker will not get to see you.

2. The clothier wants a permanent and handy record of your stance and posture which is more reliable than notes or memory.

When I started at Turnbull & Asser there was no photography. A few years ago I wanted changes to my pattern, and Simon Hobbs (now manager of L.A.) took photos. In the case of Turnbull, the pattern and shirt are made in England, therefore, the actual shirtmakers never meet you.

My friend, Izzy of LS Clothes, takes photos for MTM for Coppley suits. However, his other suitmakers do not require photos, and traditional measurements and notes suffice. In his case, all of his suits are made off-premises by factories or workshops.

Brooks had a MTM program where the measurements were taken by computer. You stripped down to your underwear, and you were measured in a room by computers so that the computer drew a "perfect" pattern based on three dimensional pcitures. I think that Brooks abandoned this project.

I have had shirts both MTM and bespoke where there has been no photography.

A photograph is a mere tool.

Good luck.

[ks]

Thanks everyone. These comments have made me much more comfortable about the request for photographs.

Costi, I take your point about a local shirtmaker, but I have so far been unable to find anyone in San Francisco. That said, I would ultimately prefer to have my shirt maker see the shirt on me, in person. However, until I can find that local person (or afford to make trips to other cities for shirts), I guess, I will see how this goes.

Thanks again to all who responded! (I still have not heard back as to the name of the shirtmaker, but I will post it as soon as I hear.)

[palmer]

Dear ks:

I agree with Costi's comments about the request for photographs and think you may be well-served by the maker you're using.

In the event you're not pleased with this maker's work, however, you might try Dege & Skinner. Robert Whittaker is Dege's shirtmaker, and he routinely visits San Francisco in the spring and fall. Thus, if you chose to go with Dege, you could, in a shirtmaking sense, meet your maker.

Good luck and best regards,

[ks]

Thank you for that additional vote of confidence! I must say that I feel much relieved, especially given the price that I am paying.

My tailor now tells me that his bespoke shirt service "is controlled in-house," despite telling me in person that he outsourced to a particular shirt maker whose name I now cannot remember (curses, I should have been paying more attention). Since my tailor is young and internet-savvy, part of me is suspicious that he monitors these boards for mention of his name (if so, hello, Jonathan!), and that he is perhaps contractually or otherwise prevented from disclosing the relationship with the shirt maker widely (my tailor did say that the shirt maker was taking on his orders because they were not large in number and to fill up a bit of spare capacity on the part of the shirt maker, so perhaps the shirt maker would prefer that this was not widely known?) So it appears that I will not be able identify the shirt maker.

On a separate note (or should i start a new post?), researching the shirt making process, I see that some bespoke shirt makers start with a cardboard or other mock up shirt, working with that until it fits, and then using that as a pattern for the resulting shirts. Should I be expecting this from my shirt maker? Does Mr. Whittaker at Dege do this?

Thank you again to everyone. This board is certainly a font of information!

[palmer]

Dear ks:

I can speak only in generalities about Mr. Whittaker's patterns, which, I believe, are paper, but perhaps a description of the process of ordering a shirt would help. You choose a fabric for the first shirt, are measured extensively, and asked about specific points of preference. The latter include just about any detail you can imagine in addition to the standards that include collar shape and size, type of cuffs, length of tail, fullness or slimness, etc. With all of that information, Mr. Whittaker makes a shirt that you wear a number of times, especially after laundering. This allows you to see what works and what doesn't about, and any problems with the shirt are worked out until the pattern is perfect. At that point, Mr. Whittaker makes the rest of your order (four shirts minimum the first time, as few or as many as you wish after that). If your body shape changes over time, as mine unfortunately has, this is accounted for in later shirts.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,

[Smiley Dan]

KS, my educated guess is that your shirtmaker is Russel & Hodge (http://www.russellandhodge.com).

Andrey

I don't think it's Russell and Hodge. I don't know for sure, but at least the last time I was at the shop Kerry said words to the effect that he expected JQ offered shirts but didn't seem to know for sure. Thus, I can only surmise he does not make the shirts for JQ.

It would make sense though given they are only about four doors down from each other!

[ks]

Scot may be right in his guess as to Sean O'Flynn. I vaguely remember the first name being Sean, and being told that the tailor was a Jerymn Street shirtmaker who made shirts for certain folks whose names I did not remember. I am familiar with Russel & Hodge, and had I been told their name, I would have remembered that. And according to Scot, Sean O'Flynn uses photographs, so it fits together.

It's now been a couple of weeks since my conversation with Jonathan, so it's a little fuzzy. I will try and corner him during my next fitting and let everyone know. Thanks again for all the support and interest!