A 20 Oz Three Piece Lounge Suit

[Sator]

I managed to find an opportunity for a first outing for this three piece suit one day this week, when the temperature fell to a 23 C (73.2 F). Needless to say, it is supremely comfortable and seems to shield me from the heat rather than make me run warmer. The Bedouin traditionally wear very heavy woollen clothes for just that reason.

Here is the illustration it is based on:



And here are the results:













I greatly look forward to finding more 20 Oz weighted cloths suitable as suiting.

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[Costi]

It looks excellent, Sator - you can almost feel the weight of the cloth through the pictures. May you have many opportunities to wear it!

[alden]

Very nice.

When I was visiting with my weavers today they mentioned there is a trend back towards heavy cloth at the very high end RTW names. According to an exec at Tom Ford, "its for the "rich" client who is also a "smart" client, one who is willing to pay but wants real quality goods. So if you are rich and intelligent, 20 ozs. is an excellent choice.

Cheers

[storeynicholas]

Sator, another one to celebrate: very, very good all round (if I may say so) - demonstrates too the benefit of no vents on DBs - although (despite the truth in heavy cloths keeping the heat out), it still makes me sweat to look at it from here!
NJS

[Etutee]

Hi Sator,

20oz in 23C? I have a 16 oz when I use it in anything over 20C I feel like I will collapse any moment. anyways… good for you if you find it wearable.

BTW are you aware that in the illustration the shirt color is oxblood and tie is black?

I like your pink color choice and genuinely think it goes well with this grey suiting than oxblood. I once almost bought that exact same colored shirt but then stopped because I don’t find oxblood an easy color to use. This grey suiting paired up with an oxblood shirt as in illustration and a black tie creates a VERY unusual combination in real life.

I dont know if your change of shirt color was intentional or unintentional but it looks better with grey in my opinion.

Regards

[schneidergott]

Great cloth, well styled and well made suit.
But: the coat is a bit "eng am Popo". If there is some more fabric in the seams make your tailor let it out a bit. With that done, it's close to perfection. One of the best suits I've seen for a while.


SG

[Frog in Suit]

Dear Sator,

I am green with envy . What is the cloth reference, if one may ask?

Frog in Suit

[pbc]

Wow. I don't normally comment on such posts, but that suit looks great. Please describe the dialog with the tailor. Did you just show him the picture before he started measuring? I noticed you changed the button stance. Will you share your reasoning behind it?

pbc

[Sator]

BTW are you aware that in the illustration the shirt color is oxblood and tie is black?

I like your pink color choice and genuinely think it goes well with this grey suiting than oxblood. I once almost bought that exact same colored shirt but then stopped because I don’t find oxblood an easy color to use. This grey suiting paired up with an oxblood shirt as in illustration and a black tie creates a VERY unusual combination in real life.

The shirt was the closest match I could find in my closet. The cloth is made by Thomas Mason. In reality the colour of the stripes is more like alternating lighter and darker lavender - but a very pinkish lavender. I didn't have a black tie so I went for dark navy instead.

Yes, I agree that oxblood and black would be an unusual colour combination. The moment I put together my own shirt, tie and coat it struck me how unusually colourful the combination was, and would probably have been considered a bit fashion forward in its day. It made me wonder if American lawyers back in those days really did wear colours like this in court!

Quite coincidentally, I am wearing Vass oxblood shoes on the U last in the picture.





I must confess, the combination was already far more colourful than what I am use to, so when it came to picking the shoe, I thought "what the heck!"

The whole combination reminded me how 1950s English authors advise the wearer to eschew the colourful combinations sported by Americans, even if he may at times be a bit envious of the greater freedom with colour enjoyed by his American colleagues:

Some English people admire - almost envy - the American style of dressing, the complete informality and free use of colour. On the other hand, many Englishmen visiting American have been "ribbed" for the sobriety of their clothing, and especially their ties, and the next time they meet their critics they find them wearing neater ties - imported ones - from England!

Sydney Barney: Clothes and the Man, London, 1951.

By "some English people" I am sure he had in mind the Duke of Windsor, whose style of dress, with its colour and informality was regarded as being rather American. It is no coincidence that he abdicated his throne just so he could marry an American.

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[Sator]

Great cloth, well styled and well made suit.
But: the coat is a bit "eng am Popo". If there is some more fabric in the seams make your tailor let it out a bit. With that done, it's close to perfection. One of the best suits I've seen for a while.


SG

Vielen Dank. Yes, a bit "eng am Popo" but I did ask for a fuller chest and cleaner skirt. I usually ask for a skirtier coat, but I tried experimenting here with a narrow skirt. It feels comfortable so I will wear it a bit more and think about how I feel about it.

Actually, the only real fault I can find is that the arm scye depth is too deep. Afterwards I gave my tailor a few copies of excerpts from cutter's manuals about arm scye depth. The tailor who made the suit (Sam Disano) is not my usual tailor, but someone I ordered a suit from for the first time (I had ordered other odds and ends before). Sam had studied at technical college from A.A. Whife, a copy of which he keeps in his cutting room. Whife is not strong on arm scye depth. Sam agreed that adding a depth of scye measurement to a pattern should not be that hard. Maybe next time we'll get it right.

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[storeynicholas]

It is no coincidence that he abdicated his throne just so he could marry an American.[/quote]

Some of us had been under the impression that he abdicated because he needed 'the help and support of the woman I love'......He might have been frivolous, but there was undoubtedly some feeling there!
NJS

[pvpatty]

Magnificent.

[Cufflink79]

Dear Sator:

Great suit and shoes. I must say it is really neat to see an AA garment come to life. I hope you get many good years of use out of it.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

[Sator]

Wow. I don't normally comment on such posts, but that suit looks great. Please describe the dialog with the tailor. Did you just show him the picture before he started measuring? I noticed you changed the button stance. Will you share your reasoning behind it?

pbc

By button stance, I presume that you meant that the buttons are arranged in a V shape? The AA illustration shows a more typical arrangement, which unfortunately is the default configuration on RTW garments. Actually, I didn't ask for it, and although I did consider asking for it to be changed, it has grown on me, so I will probably keep it. I could change it myself today if I wanted to.

This illustration nicely shows both configurations:



The other thing is that I suspect that the AA illustration has a decorative button hole along the lapels, so it could be fastened as a 2x6 coat. Sam's advice was that to achieve this he would usually have the canvassing stop a little short of the base of the lapels where the button hole is formed. By omitting the button hole you get more canvassing in at end of the lapel, giving it more structure and allowing it to roll more gracefully. I followed his advice.

The other interesting story is the choice of tailors. My usual tailor seemed very reluctant to use heavier cloth. He thinks I am a bit mad for choosing 16 Oz cloths already, and he is busy enough as it is making up my other orders. Sam Disano, although Italian by birth, has learnt his craft in Australia in the 1950's from a classic English textbook written by West End tailors. His preference tends to be for a very structured coat. He uses very stout horsehair canvassing - almost as heavy as my cloth! He cringes when you discuss soft tailoring with him. So by offering him this particular commission, I was playing to his strengths - stout cloth, stout canvass, for a highly structured and clean coat.

I now have my eye on a 22 Oz cloth. This may well be my next commission from Sam. I really do wish there was a greater selection of cloths in this weight range. One of the reasons for posting these pictures was to peak interest in commissioning 20-24 Oz weight suitings. As you can see, such cloths really do tailor like a dream. The most surprising thing is that it doesn't run anywhere near as warm as I feared. I think you get to a point when the cloth starts to shield you from the heat. I may yet experiment with wearing it in 30+ C heat one day!

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[Sator]

Some of us had been under the impression that he abdicated because he needed 'the help and support of the woman I love'......He might have been frivolous, but there was undoubtedly some feeling there!
NJS

I don't want to get into the dirty politics of it but the abdication was forced on him for quite different reasons:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/2644123.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2002/jun/2 ... h.monarchy
http://www.fpp.co.uk/bookchapters/WSC/Windsor.html

Let us leave the political discussion there on that, or take it elsewhere.

As for the Duke's taste in dress, Penelope Byrde writes in The Male Image (Batsford Ltd, London, 1979):

He was particularly impressed by America, its people and their way of life and tried to introduce some of their informality in dress and social habits to Britain. His influence over male dress in the 1920's was considerable although his taste was not always thought to be entirely reliable. He had a liking for flamboyant, colourful clothes and caused a sensation in 1924 when he arrived in America dressed in a grey double-breasted suit with wide lapels and tan suede shoes, both of which were generally considered little short of caddish at the time. As an elderly man, in the South of France, he used to wear, in the garden, crimson trousers with a light blue shirt and red and white shoes, or bright blue trousers with a canary yellow shirt. Max Beerbohm questioned his fitness for office after hearing rumours that the Prince appeared at Sunday lunch in an Italian hotel dressed in shorts; he thought the Prince should have realised that the Italians would not approve of such costume on such an occasion. 'I'm sadly doubtful of the future effects of Edward VIII. But of course he may turn out to be all right'

I wonder what Churchill would have said. But as I say, let us move elsewhere if we are to discuss politics.

This, in any case, is the little cartoon that accompanies Sydney Barney's 1951 text comparing American and English dressing styles:



On the left, I take is, is what the Duke of Windsor aspired to . Notice that he is wearing a comically exaggerated drape cut coat and the discussion states that:

The Americans, for example, avoid 'fit' in the sense that the English know it. Their garments hang comfortably and are designed for the practical purpose of everyday affairs.

Obviously, that is all a case of the Brits giving the Americans a bit of a "ribbing". The funniest thing is that the English today have a reputation amongst Americans for favouring loud ties and shirts!

I any case, I enjoyed my little American Day with the flashier colour combinations of AA - oxblood shoes and all. What a pity they weren't cordovan to make it more authentic. Alas nor do I own a vintage Stetson's fedora hat to go with it.

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