Adolphe Menjou's Tailors

[carl browne]

Did Menjou patronize all of those tailors simultaneously? If you stay with the same tailor for a number of years, you'll aquire a wardrobe that gives you a certain day to day uniformity of appearance. Suits, jackets, trousers are all going to be cut along the same lines, no matter the cloth. You hope that you find the most flattering cut and stay with it, but if your measurements are in the middle of the bell-curve, you might look just as well with one cut as another, as long as it fits. I've noticed that the best dressed men (and women, for that matter) do have a certain uniformity of style that changes only subtly as fashions change. This seems to be true of Menjou, so why nine tailors?

[Cufflink79]

As for the turnups/cuffs - they do look deep but the trousers are so full that less deep might have looked skimped. NJS

I wholeheartedly agree with you on that NJS. So many RTW trousers are cut so #$@!% close and have a low waist to them that many cuffs nowadays are not as high.

I not only prefer a high rise and full cut trouser, but need them for I am not a very small person. As my friend Jess said to me once when he was marking up a pair of trousers for me, "You need that extra ball room uh."

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

[Costi]

I made an attempt at measuring the depth of the turnups: if the coat sleeve (the right sleeve, which hangs straight) normally measures 67-70 cm (9 cms on my screen), then the turnups (which are 8 mms on my screen) are about 6 cms. deep, i.e. 2.50 in! I think those are deep turnups by any standards! I usually have mine 3.5 cms deep (1.5 in), 4 cms at most on very sporty trousers. And I also like high rise, full cut trousers (but I think mine taper a bit more toward the ankles)
As for buttons on DB coats - I think it is standard practice to button all up. However, the lapels may be rolled towards the bottom button (Kent style) and go a little or all the way through the top buttonhole, in which case only the bottom is buttoned (a style I like as it gives a more "relaxed" shape to the coat).
Undoing the bottom button is common practice when sitting (especially if the coat is ventless), so the skirt may flare and give a bit rather than wrinkle and push the coat up. One may forget to rebutton it when standing up again, just like one may "forget" to button the cuffs after (imaginarily) having washed one's hands...

[storeynicholas]

I made an attempt at measuring the depth of the turnups: if the coat sleeve (the right sleeve, which hangs straight) normally measures 67-70 cm (9 cms on my screen), then the turnups (which are 8 mms on my screen) are about 6 cms. deep, i.e. 2.50 in! I think those are deep turnups by any standards! I usually have mine 3.5 cms deep (1.5 in), 4 cms at most on very sporty trousers. And I also like high rise, full cut trousers (but I think mine taper a bit more toward the ankles)
As for buttons on DB coats - I think it is standard practice to button all up. However, the lapels may be rolled towards the bottom button (Kent style) and go a little or all the way through the top buttonhole, in which case only the bottom is buttoned (a style I like as it gives a more "relaxed" shape to the coat).
Undoing the bottom button is common practice when sitting (especially if the coat is ventless), so the skirt may flare and give a bit rather than wrinkle and push the coat up. One may forget to rebutton it when standing up again, just like one may "forget" to button the cuffs after (imaginarily) having washed one's hands...

I'd be very interested to hear whether anyone here has ever unbuttoned heir coat cuffs to wash their hands?
NJS

[marcelo]

As for the fastening of all working buttons in a DB, should we expect one to leave the bottom button undone?

It is my firm opinion thet one should not, but there are some (ahem!) even in this forum , who have been known to disagree....

Frog in Suit

Ahem! Looking at the Duke of Windsor in various pictures, through his life (www.gettyimmages.com) it seems that he frequently did up the lower button and left the top one undone; sometimes he had display buttons and, sometimes, not. On a DB DJ I noticed in one image that one button was to do up and the only other was for display. A cutter once mentioned that he thought it best to do up the top and leave the bottom button undone; however, by Jove, here there might reasonably be room for difference of practice without too much bad blood I think that if AM had left either button undone then, because of his choice of tight fit, the coat would have splayed open. As for the turnups/cuffs - they do look deep but the trousers are so full that less deep might have looked skimped.
NJS

Some time ago I took a look at all pictures of Prince Charles available at google-pictures: as far as I an remember, when He wore a suit (and not a military uniform, polo outfit, etc.) He invariably had a DB on, and then, always, all button were done up. But, NJS’s comment has a point: rules must be also reasonable. It might be unreasonable to leave the bottom button undone, given the fact that the jacket has a tight fit. The explanation for the cuff length also seems quite reasonable. But what do you think of the jacket sleeve? Could not it have been slightly shorter?

[marcelo]

...it when standing up again, just like one may "forget" to button the cuffs after (imaginarily) having washed one's hands...

I'd be very interested to hear whether anyone here has ever unbuttoned heir coat cuffs to wash their hands?
NJS

And what is more: ... whether anyone here has ever unbuttoned their coat cuffs to IMAGINARILY wash their hands?

[storeynicholas]

...it when standing up again, just like one may "forget" to button the cuffs after (imaginarily) having washed one's hands...

I'd be very interested to hear whether anyone here has ever unbuttoned heir coat cuffs to wash their hands?
NJS

And what is more: ... whether anyone here has ever unbuttoned their coat cuffs to IMAGINARILY wash their hands?

I did with my first bespoke suit do exactly this. In undertaking the exercise, imaginarily to wash my hands, I discovered that one undoes the coat cuffs and turns them back but then has to undo the shirt cuffs and turn those back too and that, in doing so, I would exceed, by several minutes, the time that it takes an average female of our species to powder her nose and so I abandoned further thought of putting the trial run into actual practice but, maybe, the dogged persistence in having all future cuff buttons to undo, even on top coats, reaches for the brightest star of frivolity. And that makes me smile. Because at least I can reach up there.
NJS

[Doug]

I undo the buttons and roll up the sleeves, mostly on sport coats, in hot weather. It is much cooler that way. If you like to walk to work or travel to hot places with AC that is not always functioning, it is quite practical. I've seen pictures of E.F. Hutton, Jack Bouvier, and Tommy Armour from the 30s doing this, mostly in jackets or light weight suits with casual shirts.

[Jordan Marc]

Menjou may have been well-dressed, but he was disliked by the Hollywood community. Nobody in the picture biz who had worked with him wanted anything more to do with him. He was considered a miserable SOB.

JMB

[storeynicholas]

Menjou may have been well-dressed, but he was disliked by the Hollywood community. Nobody in the picture biz who had worked with him wanted anything more to do with him. He was considered a miserable SOB.

JMB

I thought that this accolade belonged to James Mason.
NJS

[garu]

storeynicholas wrote:


I'd be very interested to hear whether anyone here has ever unbuttoned heir coat cuffs to wash their hands?
NJS

It may not be very common now in most of the US or Europe, but there was a time in the not-too-distant past when some companies required that a gentleman always keep a suit jacket on. Of course, unbuttoning one's jacket cuffs to wash one's hands was no great hardship. Those who could not unbotton their cuffs simply pulled the sleeve up high.

The past had more grace, but the present is more convenient...

garu

[Costi]

You are right, garu - there was a time when taking one's jacket off in front of others and especially ladies was not acceptable. Also in those times running water was not as common, particularly in the country, so situations did present themselves when someone poored some water for you to wash your hands. Those times are gone. Leaving cuff buttons undone today pretends to hint at that habit but is really just meant to make sure your working cuff buttonholes are noticed ergo your coat is bespoke even though there is no outer label to show it (although now they are common on RTW coats as well). So yes marcelo, "imaginarily", as I don't suppose 1% of those who leave cuff buttons undone wash their hands as NJS describes.

[garu]

Costi, I agree with you about today's affectation with the undone cuff button. Where I live, the current vogue among a certain set is to have buttons of a radically different hue from the cloth, button hole stitching of yet another mismatching shade, and one or two buttons left undone, all to show the passing world that you are "somebody." If my parents were here to see it they would be knocking heads together.

However, when I said the "not-too-distant past," that is just what I meant. Twenty years ago, when I first went to work in Washington, DC, I was surprised that a very large international company, one you would know very well if I said the name, had a dress code that mandated that a gentleman must (1) wear only white dress shirts, and (2) wear his suit jacket at all times. No doubt that has changed. Still, as hard as it may be to believe, even now in Japan some companies have similar dress codes. My employer does not mandate shirt color (most of the time - Japan does still have strict rules for ceremonial dress), but gentlemen must always wear a neck tie (at all times) and a jacket (between the hours of 0830 and 1730).

Thankfully, they do not seem to be too strict in the toilet and at the wash basin!

Ta!
garu

[Mark Seitelman]

Menjou may have been well-dressed, but he was disliked by the Hollywood community. Nobody in the picture biz who had worked with him wanted anything more to do with him. He was considered a miserable SOB.

JMB

Clark Gable, his leading man in "The Hucksters," liked him enough to write the introduction of "It Took Nine Tailors."

[Mark Seitelman]

Did Menjou patronize all of those tailors simultaneously? If you stay with the same tailor for a number of years, you'll aquire a wardrobe that gives you a certain day to day uniformity of appearance. Suits, jackets, trousers are all going to be cut along the same lines, no matter the cloth. You hope that you find the most flattering cut and stay with it, but if your measurements are in the middle of the bell-curve, you might look just as well with one cut as another, as long as it fits. I've noticed that the best dressed men (and women, for that matter) do have a certain uniformity of style that changes only subtly as fashions change. This seems to be true of Menjou, so why nine tailors?

Menjou had a career of at least 40 years in motion pictures. He states in his book that he amassed a considerable collection of clothing although a silent picture star, Owen Moore, threw-out more clothes than Menjou ever bought.

Menjou was quite specific about what he wanted. In his book he says that he worked closely with Eddie Schmidt.

I believe that the majority of his clothes and probably all of his movie clothes were made by Eddie Schmidt in Los Angeles.