I've narrowed my search to Caraceni Rome for my next 3 piece vested suit and don't wish to take up members time by asking what are your thoughts on so and so tailor in New York, Paris, London....etc.
I'm looking for a 2-3 button (possible 2.5 rolled button) jacket with a vest
I've only previously used a local bespoke tailor but would like to experiment with Caraceni due to their reputation for making a well styled, well constructed, and well fitting suit that I can wear to court since I'm a criminal defense lawyer in Los Angeles,
I already have 10 bespoke suits in my rotation and wish to add
Basically I want an upgrade to see if I feel its worth the price premium
I'm not fixated on only using them...thus I ask for the experience and guidance of more seasoned members who previously reached this fork in the road and were considering Caraceni
I'm 6'4 and 265 pounds (tall, well fed, and well hipped so to speak) and regular shoulders (not slopping)
I've read discussions on previous threads discussing the various Italian tailors, but was wondering if anyone is willing to summarize what should I expect from Caraceni Rome?
What I'm asking for is could someone provide a side by side comparison of a Caraceni suit with say a Cifonelli or Rubinacci suit and point out the differences (picture comparisons would be welcome), say in the shoulder, body, sleevehead, collar...etc.
Given my body shape, would the house style of Caraceni be appropriate for me?
Are there pitfalls to the Caraceni style that I should be aware of?
Is Caraceni Rome right for me?
Sorry, but I don't think anyone has a coat cut by Caraceni for YOU.
The question should not be about cooker cutter house styles but how they are going to make a pattern for YOUR body and the PROCESS that goes into that. Just seeing the result on someone else guarantees little, especially if you are more difficult to fit because of disproportions (stout waist, stooping/erect stance etc). Perhaps the more important thing is also how good their second and third orders will be on you. Also how will you get on with them? Will you manage to establish an amicable long term relationship with them? Or are you just after a sartorial one night stand before you move onto the next tailor? Also what are you trying to get out of them that your previous tailor(s) couldn't offer?
The even bigger question is whether you will have enough time for sufficient fittings to make up any problems with the skeleton/basted fittings. That is the biggest problem with travelling to get things made.
The question should not be about cooker cutter house styles but how they are going to make a pattern for YOUR body and the PROCESS that goes into that. Just seeing the result on someone else guarantees little, especially if you are more difficult to fit because of disproportions (stout waist, stooping/erect stance etc). Perhaps the more important thing is also how good their second and third orders will be on you. Also how will you get on with them? Will you manage to establish an amicable long term relationship with them? Or are you just after a sartorial one night stand before you move onto the next tailor? Also what are you trying to get out of them that your previous tailor(s) couldn't offer?
The even bigger question is whether you will have enough time for sufficient fittings to make up any problems with the skeleton/basted fittings. That is the biggest problem with travelling to get things made.
Sator you brought up some good issues which I think I can address
My current tailor is ready to retire and as of late, his bespoke suits for me have been inconsistent and have required repeated fittings and adjustments...even though he's made 11 suits for me since 2002. At only $1000 CMT for a 4 piece suit he is a godsend and since he's a one man show, he does everything himself, cutting, tailoring, the vest and trousers...all by himself. He's helped me build my wardrobe
But I have a desire to try a better tailor...if one exists, and am mulling over whether I am willing to pay the much higher price
Obviously, along with a better tailor, I plan on experimenting with better fabrics, and hopefully some limited editions through the London Lounge
I found another one man show Italian tailor, Enzo Caruso, nearby, yet he charges over 3 times for CMT as my current tailor. I've spoken to him and liked his product. But Enzo is 59 years old and I doubt he'll work past social security retirement age...which means he won't be in the business for much longer...thus no long term relationship prospects with him.
But I'm debating whether I'm better off with a one man show or whether a reputable tailoring house like Caraceni or Cifonelli would be more appropriate as I seek to expend my wardrobe.
I'm now wondering if I should ask Enzo if he is familiar with the Caraceni style. If he is, whether he would recommend it for me and would he be capable of making something similar for me
I ran into Alessandro Martorana who visits Los Angeles 1 week out of just about every month (he likes it here and plans on opening an Atelier here soon). He's the current tailor of Lapo (Agnelli's grandson). He is familiar with the Caraceni style and said his suits are more similar to theirs than any other Italian tailoring house. He is an alternative but would cost 4 times as much as my current tailor. I've estimated Caraceni would be about 5 times as much as my current tailor in terms of CMT only
Thus I desire more information on what is the Caraceni house style (besides what I've read in Alan Flussers books) and was wondering if members can post some pictures and point out the distinct nature of their house style.
Caraceni answered back to me that within one week of ordering a suit, presuming I delivery them the cloth at the initial measurement, the first fitting can be had within one week, and if I stay another day in Rome, then can do a 2nd fitting, and then mail the finished suit when ready.
Caraceni and Cifonelli might be one night stands for me, presuming I get over the hurdle to actually like their product and opt to purchase a jacket or 3 piece suit.
From what I gathered, Michael Alden himself does not exclusively use a named tailoring house. Perhaps years ago he experimented with various Savile Row firms, but then learned of others notably Italian (likely Sicilian) tailors and tried them out. I'm sure his tastes have evolved while his odyssey has provided him with a wardrobe which looks good, fits great, is well constructed, is affordable. This too is what I hope for and I'm only in my mid-30s
My current tailor is ready to retire and as of late, his bespoke suits for me have been inconsistent and have required repeated fittings and adjustments...even though he's made 11 suits for me since 2002. At only $1000 CMT for a 4 piece suit he is a godsend and since he's a one man show, he does everything himself, cutting, tailoring, the vest and trousers...all by himself. He's helped me build my wardrobe
But I have a desire to try a better tailor...if one exists, and am mulling over whether I am willing to pay the much higher price
Obviously, along with a better tailor, I plan on experimenting with better fabrics, and hopefully some limited editions through the London Lounge
I found another one man show Italian tailor, Enzo Caruso, nearby, yet he charges over 3 times for CMT as my current tailor. I've spoken to him and liked his product. But Enzo is 59 years old and I doubt he'll work past social security retirement age...which means he won't be in the business for much longer...thus no long term relationship prospects with him.
But I'm debating whether I'm better off with a one man show or whether a reputable tailoring house like Caraceni or Cifonelli would be more appropriate as I seek to expend my wardrobe.
I'm now wondering if I should ask Enzo if he is familiar with the Caraceni style. If he is, whether he would recommend it for me and would he be capable of making something similar for me
I ran into Alessandro Martorana who visits Los Angeles 1 week out of just about every month (he likes it here and plans on opening an Atelier here soon). He's the current tailor of Lapo (Agnelli's grandson). He is familiar with the Caraceni style and said his suits are more similar to theirs than any other Italian tailoring house. He is an alternative but would cost 4 times as much as my current tailor. I've estimated Caraceni would be about 5 times as much as my current tailor in terms of CMT only
Thus I desire more information on what is the Caraceni house style (besides what I've read in Alan Flussers books) and was wondering if members can post some pictures and point out the distinct nature of their house style.
Caraceni answered back to me that within one week of ordering a suit, presuming I delivery them the cloth at the initial measurement, the first fitting can be had within one week, and if I stay another day in Rome, then can do a 2nd fitting, and then mail the finished suit when ready.
Caraceni and Cifonelli might be one night stands for me, presuming I get over the hurdle to actually like their product and opt to purchase a jacket or 3 piece suit.
From what I gathered, Michael Alden himself does not exclusively use a named tailoring house. Perhaps years ago he experimented with various Savile Row firms, but then learned of others notably Italian (likely Sicilian) tailors and tried them out. I'm sure his tastes have evolved while his odyssey has provided him with a wardrobe which looks good, fits great, is well constructed, is affordable. This too is what I hope for and I'm only in my mid-30s
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Jordan Marc
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ay329:
Rather than running off to Rome to be tailored, you might consider William Fioravanti in New York City. Bill tailors a number of the 57th Street Biggies (read: lawyers); and if you're wise enough to avoid the lure of exhorbitantly priced super cloths (too delicate, no guts), he's
reasonable in price. While you're in Manhattan, have some shirts made by Alexander Kabbaz and do have a look at his hosiery. For gorgeous ties, head for Stefano Ricci.
Ideally what you want is a great tailor whose workroom is on premise, not farmed out to some sweatshot whose slave labor takes a who cares attitude to measurements when stitching pieces together.
JMB
Rather than running off to Rome to be tailored, you might consider William Fioravanti in New York City. Bill tailors a number of the 57th Street Biggies (read: lawyers); and if you're wise enough to avoid the lure of exhorbitantly priced super cloths (too delicate, no guts), he's
reasonable in price. While you're in Manhattan, have some shirts made by Alexander Kabbaz and do have a look at his hosiery. For gorgeous ties, head for Stefano Ricci.
Ideally what you want is a great tailor whose workroom is on premise, not farmed out to some sweatshot whose slave labor takes a who cares attitude to measurements when stitching pieces together.
JMB
If you're concerned about the retirement ages of your tailors you should know that the Caraceni brothers in Rome are, I believe, in their late sixties or early seventies. If I were you that would not scare me away--to the contrary, it would make me want to make use of their talents while they were available.
If you are a criminal defense attorney in LA you might want to ask your colleague Robert Shapiro what he thinks of Caraceni. I am pretty sure he is a client.
If you are a criminal defense attorney in LA you might want to ask your colleague Robert Shapiro what he thinks of Caraceni. I am pretty sure he is a client.
BP45, Next time I'll see Shapiro, I'll ask
As to the age of Caraceni...its a family business and I understand Tommy and Guido have sons involved in the business, thus when they retire, the next generation will continue the family business. That is why I was not concerned with Caraceni. My current tailor, and the other tailor Enzo Caruso, both are one man shows and their sons will not continue their tailoring tradition. Thus I'm comfortable with working with them, as I am also considering Cifonelli and Camps De Luca in Paris given family members run the business
Any pictures to share?
As to the age of Caraceni...its a family business and I understand Tommy and Guido have sons involved in the business, thus when they retire, the next generation will continue the family business. That is why I was not concerned with Caraceni. My current tailor, and the other tailor Enzo Caruso, both are one man shows and their sons will not continue their tailoring tradition. Thus I'm comfortable with working with them, as I am also considering Cifonelli and Camps De Luca in Paris given family members run the business
Any pictures to share?
Jordan Marc thanks for the heads up
As to a shirtmaker, I found Freddy through Ask Andy...Alex Kabbaz makes an excellent product but I can not place a $1000 value on a shirt at this point in my life
As to Fiorvanti, I'm not interested in his style and his prices are astronomical. Besides I've read only mediocre things about him and I have yet to locate a single customer of his to get some feedback.
The London Lounge has had some excellent threads on comparing Italian to English tailoring, and even more specific discussions on the difference amongst the different Italian regional style. Better yet, I've learned even within one city, ie. Naples, the styles vary.
Thus since I'll have a chance to fly through Rome and am exploring a new tailor, I see the opportunity to try one in Rome. I considered Naples with Rubinacci but opted his beautiful style was not for me. But Caraceni, Cifonelli (which has an outlet in Rome), or maybe Camps De Luca in Paris might be alternatives of trying a better tailor.
For my own style reasons, I opted to not try New York, even though I go there more often than Europe
As to a shirtmaker, I found Freddy through Ask Andy...Alex Kabbaz makes an excellent product but I can not place a $1000 value on a shirt at this point in my life
As to Fiorvanti, I'm not interested in his style and his prices are astronomical. Besides I've read only mediocre things about him and I have yet to locate a single customer of his to get some feedback.
The London Lounge has had some excellent threads on comparing Italian to English tailoring, and even more specific discussions on the difference amongst the different Italian regional style. Better yet, I've learned even within one city, ie. Naples, the styles vary.
Thus since I'll have a chance to fly through Rome and am exploring a new tailor, I see the opportunity to try one in Rome. I considered Naples with Rubinacci but opted his beautiful style was not for me. But Caraceni, Cifonelli (which has an outlet in Rome), or maybe Camps De Luca in Paris might be alternatives of trying a better tailor.
For my own style reasons, I opted to not try New York, even though I go there more often than Europe
I had this conversation a few years ago with a well known attorney who spends a good deal of time in front of juries. The impact of dress on jury psychology was made clear to me. One must convey a certain amount of gravitas while remaining friendly and easy going. In retrospect, I would say that the soft tailored English style combines these two attributes very well.
The Italian/French look, and this is a gross generality, is just “too much”, too studied, expansive, and gravitas-deficient. The structured English can look military, stern, gravitas-enriched but not exactly approachable or friendly. So you might want to book a flight over to London as see some of the tailors who cut in the AS style.
Cheers
Michael
The Italian/French look, and this is a gross generality, is just “too much”, too studied, expansive, and gravitas-deficient. The structured English can look military, stern, gravitas-enriched but not exactly approachable or friendly. So you might want to book a flight over to London as see some of the tailors who cut in the AS style.
Cheers
Michael
You raise an interesting point, Mr Alden. The aesthetic merits of a garment are one thing, but in professional life, one must consider the impact that the silhouette will have on the viewer. This is something of a revelation to me; up until this point, I have factored in the choice of colour, cloth, etc into deciding whether a garment is appropriate or not for a situation, but the idea that the style of construction may be a determining factor is a notion that seems all of a sudden eminently sensible, but at the same time quite novel!alden wrote:I had this conversation a few years ago with a well known attorney who spends a good deal of time in front of juries. The impact of dress on jury psychology was made clear to me. One must convey a certain amount of gravitas while remaining friendly and easy going. In retrospect, I would say that the soft tailored English style combines these two attributes very well.
The Italian/French look, and this is a gross generality, is just “too much”, too studied, expansive, and gravitas-deficient. The structured English can look military, stern, gravitas-enriched but not exactly approachable or friendly. So you might want to book a flight over to London as see some of the tailors who cut in the AS style.
Cheers
Michael
[quote="alden"]I So you might want to book a flight over to London as see some of the tailors who cut in the AS style.
Alden, your comments have me thinking now.
I understand your personal liking of the A&S look mixed in with some styling cues from Naples, but I've not been a fan of this look
I am backing off the whole Caraceni look given its style...now that I've dug deeper into the Lounges prior threads and saw numerous pictures
I'm now looking at bankrupting myself by considering the Cifonelli look, and thus Paris, not Rome would be my destination (although I still might visit Naples to have Ambrosi make all of my trousers...at a much lower cost too)
I am careful of your comments that the French look might be too much...but seeing a Cifonelli suit in person will give me a better idea if its the power look I seek or would perhaps a soft shouldered look as you mentioned would be more appropriate given my profession as a public defender
What about the look of Camps De Luca in Paris...does this continue the tradition of Italo-French silhouette or does it diverge from Cifoenlli and Caraceni by infusing certain A&S soft shouldered design aspects?
Alden, your comments have me thinking now.
I understand your personal liking of the A&S look mixed in with some styling cues from Naples, but I've not been a fan of this look
I am backing off the whole Caraceni look given its style...now that I've dug deeper into the Lounges prior threads and saw numerous pictures
I'm now looking at bankrupting myself by considering the Cifonelli look, and thus Paris, not Rome would be my destination (although I still might visit Naples to have Ambrosi make all of my trousers...at a much lower cost too)
I am careful of your comments that the French look might be too much...but seeing a Cifonelli suit in person will give me a better idea if its the power look I seek or would perhaps a soft shouldered look as you mentioned would be more appropriate given my profession as a public defender
What about the look of Camps De Luca in Paris...does this continue the tradition of Italo-French silhouette or does it diverge from Cifoenlli and Caraceni by infusing certain A&S soft shouldered design aspects?
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luk-cha
perhaps you should consider Des Merrion he seems to be able to give both a soft but clean look!
"best of both" as they say!
"best of both" as they say!
Luk-cha, thanks but I'm unsure if I can detour to England
I've read Des blog with interest (whenever he randomly updates it and doesn't mention he's visiting the U.S. again
)
I just don't think he can do the rush fittings I need.
With Caraceni or Cifonelli, they have a team of cutters, tailors, vest makers and trouser makers to possibly assist me with my time constraints
But now come to think about it...he's a larger man and perhaps Des could help....hmmm, maybe I'll send him a buzz
I would hate to stress Des by rushing him...hardly a way to enjoy his work...besides I'm trying to budget 2 or 3 suits....there is now way he can do this in a week's time and I have no set timetable of when or if I'll return to the UK for more fittings...and he doesn't come to L.A.
I've seen pictures of his jackets on his blog but if any forum members have their own jackets which they can post to assist me....then fire away
I've read Des blog with interest (whenever he randomly updates it and doesn't mention he's visiting the U.S. again
) I just don't think he can do the rush fittings I need.
With Caraceni or Cifonelli, they have a team of cutters, tailors, vest makers and trouser makers to possibly assist me with my time constraints
But now come to think about it...he's a larger man and perhaps Des could help....hmmm, maybe I'll send him a buzz
I would hate to stress Des by rushing him...hardly a way to enjoy his work...besides I'm trying to budget 2 or 3 suits....there is now way he can do this in a week's time and I have no set timetable of when or if I'll return to the UK for more fittings...and he doesn't come to L.A.
I've seen pictures of his jackets on his blog but if any forum members have their own jackets which they can post to assist me....then fire away
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Jordan Marc
- Posts: 324
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You might consider Chris Despos on Oak Street in Chicago, a very talented tailor and a gentleman.
JMB
JMB
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luk-cha
on these questions i think it is best to dirrect them dirrectly to to Des
IIRC Dopey has had a suit from Des and a another guy too whos user name i dont remember at this hour
but both seemed happy with what they got!
IIRC Dopey has had a suit from Des and a another guy too whos user name i dont remember at this hour
but both seemed happy with what they got!
Nothing soft at all at Camps de Luca. The suits are structured and quite a bit formal to my eye, very Parisian. You can't go wrong with Marc De Luca but I am not sure its jury style, maybe a bit too stiff.What about the look of Camps De Luca in Paris...does this continue the tradition of Italo-French silhouette or does it diverge from Cifoenlli and Caraceni by infusing certain A&S soft shouldered design aspects?
Do look at Cifonelli. I would think they are just to extroverted to be taken seriously. Would be nice in a sports car, driving through Rome on the weekend. Take your pick of blond or brunette as passenger. But I have trouble seeing them on Perry Mason.
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