Retrocentrics' Club Emblem and Tie

"The brute covers himself, the rich man and the fop adorn themselves, the elegant man dresses!"

-Honore de Balzac

storeynicholas

Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:16 pm

I have, since the beginning, viewed the Retrocentric Club as an integral part of the LL and complementary to its purpose. I hope that no one has ever seen in it the seed of a splinter group, as the possibility crossed my mind a few evenings ago, which is why I stopped posting in this thread. I have also contacted Michael Alden to ask his permission to proceed.
The first picture below is of Gary Cooper, familiar to all London Loungers, as the epitome of masculine elegance. It demonstrates the look which many Loungers are after: easy, elegant, harmonious and without ostentation. The second picture below is of a late nineteenth century socialite and is definitely not the look that Loungers seek to emulate. However, those of us with a retrospective turn of mind might find interest in the second picture because (amongst other things), it shows a late nineteenth century silk 'white' hat - a light grey top hat - which evolved into the felt Ascot hats in the third picture (which also shows that I was wrong in opposing macs at formal racing events). Of course, the grey felt hats are still worn. Not everyone is necessarily particularly interested in these historical references, but Retrocentrics are and, from time to time, many Loungers might have an interest in specific references which we discover. This is the reason that I would hope that the Retrocentric Club might be an integral part of the London Lounge and complement and enhance its larger overall purpose. There are obvious masters in the science and art of research here and two of the greatest of them all, I do not hesitate to say, are acknowledged to be etutee and sator. I have considered whether the Retrocentric Club might impinge on their excellent articles but, bearing in mind the quality of their productions, how could it detract from them? It would, I hope, be more likely to complement them and even provide another part of the overall forum for debate.

The images are from Farid Chenoune's A History of Men's Fashion ,which Marcelo kindly lent to me.
NJS

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couch
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Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:32 pm

Dear NJS, I had never dreamed that the Retrocentrics might be a splinter or secessionist group. It seems entirely too whimsical and cloudlike an association for that, in the first place, and I'm sure none of us would wish it in the second. Nevertheless, I applaud your idea to consult Mr Alden before moving forward.

If we do proceed with the tie project, I'd like to note that a pale (bluish) lilac field with a white narrow stripe would read not unlike the silvery effect of a wedding tie in versatility; slightly less formal but still dressy. I fear that equal-width bar or candy stripes on this kind of tie might risk looking a bit too sporty and/or collegiate, limiting the wearability of the tie. It's true that any pale tie in this color range would be difficult to pair with solid light blue shirts, but it would be fine with white shirts striped with any of several colors, and with a number of checks on a white ground--and of course with retrocentric white.
storeynicholas

Tue Sep 09, 2008 5:40 pm

Dear Couch,
Thank you for that reassurance and I hope that we will proceed.
best,
NJS
marcelo
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Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:32 pm

I intended to post a message in this thread today only to make sure the project had not been abruptly abandoned after such a vivid exchange of ideas and opinions. I am glad to know it is alive. One thing, however, is not clear to me from a quick reading of the latest posts, viz. what place is left for our mascots – I must say the drawing looks quite impressive – in the project?
storeynicholas

Tue Sep 09, 2008 6:48 pm

Marcelo, I think that we should wait to hear before taking it further but share your hope.
NJS
Frog in Suit
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Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:44 pm

I could not agree more with the sentiments (inclusiveness, club colours, etc...) expressed above. I also applaud NJS's solliciting our kind host's approval.

Frog in Suit
storeynicholas

Tue Sep 09, 2008 9:57 pm

Frog in Suit wrote:I could not agree more with the sentiments (inclusiveness, club colours, etc...) expressed above. I also applaud NJS's solliciting our kind host's approval.

Frog in Suit
Thank you Frog in Suit. Looking back, I should have done it at the outset - and I could add 'but this and but that' - but I certainly won't.
NJS
pvpatty
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Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:45 pm

We now have 7 names on the list! Please, keep them coming.
pvpatty
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Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:51 pm

storeynicholas wrote:
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What sort of cloth is this? I don't recall seeing this sort of a striped effect before.
NCW
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Wed Sep 10, 2008 2:13 am

pvpatty wrote: What sort of cloth is this? I don't recall seeing this sort of a striped effect before.
Possibly a wool twill, with the camera exposure heightening the contrast where the light shines off the ridges a little more?
couch
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Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:53 am

Looks like a steep or rug twill woven of two colors of yarn. I have some cotton shirts in a smaller-scale version, with blue and white yarns. I've seen vintage wool overcoats in a similar twill, somewhat coarser in weave than Coop's here.
pvpatty
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Wed Sep 10, 2008 5:04 am

couch wrote:Looks like a steep or rug twill woven of two colors of yarn. I have some cotton shirts in a smaller-scale version, with blue and white yarns. I've seen vintage wool overcoats in a similar twill, somewhat coarser in weave than Coop's here.
Indeed couch, when I first saw this it did remind me of some shirting fabrics, but as I said, I haven't seen this on a suit. I like the effect, and it is something different without going overboard.
Costi
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Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:16 pm

The principles of elegance and good taste are timeless, but elegance is not static in its outer expressions. Presenting historical examples is not necessarily an attempt to revive past modes, but rather an opportunity to train one’s eye to spot elegance regardless of epoch and therefore better understand its essence. I think a broader view including some elements of history helps one steer away from the danger etutee has repeatedly signalled – that of approaching dress in terms of “outfits” instead of understanding the underlying principles and combining elements of dress in a personal and tasteful manner.
Perhaps, if Michael Alden sees fit, we could materialize the “club” as a distinct historical (retrocentric, retrospective) section of the Lounge, where members with a vocation for history may write about past modes, fashions, places, customs understood as reference points for comparison with the present state of affairs in various aspects of elegant life.
As for the tie, since the LL already has a beautifully designed one, why not think of a “LL Retrocentric” special edition bow tie for a change? Perhaps we could dig up (or create) a design (shape, pattern) that carries the message. I would say any pretext is good for a new bespoke commission ;)
pvpatty
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:53 am

Costi wrote:The principles of elegance and good taste are timeless, but elegance is not static in its outer expressions. Presenting historical examples is not necessarily an attempt to revive past modes, but rather an opportunity to train one’s eye to spot elegance regardless of epoch and therefore better understand its essence. I think a broader view including some elements of history helps one steer away from the danger etutee has repeatedly signalled – that of approaching dress in terms of “outfits” instead of understanding the underlying principles and combining elements of dress in a personal and tasteful manner.
Very interesting and pithy comments, Costi. In a way, I like to approach dressing and elegance as I do architecture. One can appreciate the calculated majesty of classical or neoclassical architecture, just as he Bauhaus and Art Deco era designs. Each one is suited to and characteristic of its own epoch, but there nevertheless remains a timeless aesthetic that continues to be appreciated. In this way, inspiration can still be taken from the past when dressing, and even if old world principles are not adopted today, their elegance is still recognised.
marcelo
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Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:12 am

I have noticed that such topics of historical importance, which enable one to have an in-depth understanding both of the elegant life and of the evolution – or endurance – of aesthetical ideas in the field of sartorial arts are scattered in a diversity of threads and sections. Having a special interest for these topics, I appreciate the idea suggested by Costi, though I do not know the extent to which it would be either practicable or desirable, as far as the interests of other Loungers are concerned. On the other hand, I must also admit that what I saw at the beginning as a kind of vice – the shambolic way some discussions evolved – I tend to see nowadays, rather, as a special virtue in many discussions pursued in the LL: one starts off, for instance, with very interesting remarks about the difference between English and American terms for sartorial concepts (cf. ‘An Anglo-American Dictionary of Sartorial Terms’, authored by Sator, Sun Sep 07, 2008 2:37 pm) and some time later our attention is drawn to a new, no less interesting point in the context of the same thread.
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