An Anglo-American Dictionary of Sartorial Terms

[storeynicholas]

The American-British'stroller' is, im British English, normally called just 'black jacket and striped trousers' - it is an abbreviated form of morning dress, which professionals used to wear.

Used to? Why I dress that way all the time

I think that, in Englad, few people wear it now - but it is a smart outfit and, moreover, allows for mixing and matching various garments, with the added bonus of being able to replace each part of each outfit without having to worry about cloth matching. So practical as well as smart.
NJS

[Sator]

The wearing of semi-formal morning dress (the day wear equivalent of the dinner jacket being the black/charcoal grey 'morning jacket') actually attracts far less attention than one might suppose. Most people have little clue what it is. It is also quite practical in that you can get spare trousers made up whenever you want.

The dog ate your trousers? - get another pair made.

[Azdak]

My impression, from visits to Edinburg and Aberdeen is that the Scots in Scotland are still more formal, in manners and dress, than the English.
NJS

Apologies for the cross thread reference, but one should expect no less from a nation that, to a man, has the ability to pronounce "Kilgour" properly...
Azdak

[storeynicholas]

My impression, from visits to Edinburg and Aberdeen is that the Scots in Scotland are still more formal, in manners and dress, than the English.
NJS

Apologies for the cross thread reference, but one should expect no less from a nation that, to a man, has the ability to pronounce "Kilgour" properly...
Azdak

I think cross-thread references are good - it's crossed wires that need to be avoided! As to the English and their insistence on knowing how to pronounce the names of us in the Celtic fringe (despite my English name), there are many testaments - Cornish names play havoc - 'Fowey' (properly to rhyme with 'boy') and the stresses in names such as Treffry and Trewin - well, sometimes we have to smile - but as Frog in Suit has pointed out, the English more than get their own back with some of their names!
NJS

[storeynicholas]

The wearing of semi-formal morning dress (the day wear equivalent of the dinner jacket being the black/charcoal grey 'morning jacket') actually attracts far less attention than one might suppose. Most people have little clue what it is. It is also quite practical in that you can get spare trousers made up whenever you want.

The dog ate your trousers? - get another pair made.

I remember one of your posts with a photograph - charcoal grey jacket, buff vest and striped trousers - an up-dating of an old theme - and very effective (but unastonishing) too.
NJS

[Frog in Suit]

Relative formality of dress: Edinburgh v. London. I received the same impression on our early sumer visit to Edinburgh. I should add that we were staying on a small street in the New Town, which seemed to be thoroughly infested by a plague of brass plaques (chiefly solicitors, but some financial concerns as well) hence, I suppose, the number of besuited men.

The admirable Georgian architecture seems to call for proper dress.

Frog in Suit

[storeynicholas]

Relative formality of dress: Edinburgh v. London. I received the same impression on our early sumer visit to Edinburgh. I should add that we were staying on a small street in the New Town, which seemed to be thoroughly infested by a plague of brass plaques (chiefly solicitors, but some financial concerns as well) hence, I suppose, the number of besuited men.

The admirable Georgian architecture seems to call for proper dress.

Frog in Suit

Architecture is an important part of our environment, which is why I get so cross about destruction of historic buildings and the replacement with the sartorial equivalent of tracksuits and trainers/sneakers - because this encourages, well, the wearing of tracksuits and trainers/sneakers. I am not sure whether the archictecture of, say, Bath, influences dress there. of course, Edinburgh is a capital city, which might have something to do with it too, no doubt.
NJS

[garu]

NJS, sorry, I am not the mysterious anonymous "Cheers!" poster.

Still, it never hurts to be positive, does it?

Cheers!
garu

[storeynicholas]

NJS, sorry, I am not the mysterious anonymous "Cheers!" poster.

Still, it never hurts to be positive, does it?

Cheers!
garu

Dear Garu, If you look back, you will see that I deleted my reply and the reason.
best,
NJS

[marcelo]

Architecture is an important part of our environment, which is why I get so cross about destruction of historic buildings and the replacement with the sartorial equivalent of tracksuits and trainers/sneakers - because this encourages, well, the wearing of tracksuits and trainers/sneakers...

The relationship between apparel arts and architecture might eventually deserve a thread of its own, for it is a quite interesting topic. For a start, it reminds me of the review of a book on this theme, published not long ago in The Guardian. The link is:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/ ... re.fashion

Bellow Le Corbusier and Walter Gropius, founder of the Bauhaus movement. The former was so obsessed with human proportions, that he developed the “modulor”, his own system of elegant proportions. The Swiss 10-Franc note was designed in accordance with this system. I wonder if Le Corbusier ever thought of ordering a bespoke suit after the modulor system of proportions.

[pvpatty]

And, just like all good architects should, they are wearing bow ties! They certainly look better than any architect I have met; maybe that's why their buildings do too?

[Sator]

Step collar = notched lapel (note that notchED is the proper American English)

Double breasted or pointed collar = peaked lapel (again peakED not "peak")

Here is the proof:





The source is vol I of The Modern Tailor Outfitter and Clothier edited by A.A. Whife, 1951. There is something similar mentioned in the men's tailoring section. The shawl collar is also referred to as a "roll collar". W.D.F. Vincent refers to it as the "shawl roll collar".

For further info on a bibliography for cutters and tailors see my thread on that subject.

[storeynicholas]

Have we had:
co-respondent shoes = spectator shoes?
cloakroom attendant = hatcheck girl?
NJS

[marcelo]

“marcella front = piqué-front shirt” – Would you gentlemen agree with this new entry in “our” – pace Sator – Dictionary of Sartorial Terms?

[Sator]

I think this thread needs reviving due to the recurrent confusion about the cravat/Ascot distinction.

In British English this is a cravat:



And this is an Ascot:



Sometimes they are both referred to as a "cravat" with the casual variety being called a "day cravat" to distinguish it from the dress variety. The dress variety is referred by Bridgland as being an "Ascot cravat" in one passage (Bridgeland in Whife ed.).Day cravats were strictly regarded as being suitable only as sports wear:







In American English both the casual and dress variety are called Ascots.