Apparel Arts / Esky Series Looking back your feedback Needed

[storeynicholas]

Etutee, you'll see a a lot of hats off when the article is finished

You already have NJS's fresh section on top hats - he proved very literate on the subject and a master at wrapping valuable information in fine prose. He was answering a question - you see, the demand for information is already there.

Etutee - I know, from needing to thank Costi for this, that the art of accepting a fine compliment is, sometimes, rather hard to execute. However, in a spirit of helpfulness, if adopting or adapting anything in the top hat thread would help you in any way, please feel free,if you wish, to weave any of it into the careful tapestry which I hope all the above entries, in this thread, are inspiring you to plan .
NJS

[Etutee]

AA contained some presentations based on photos rather than drawings, and I found these very valuable references because they were based on real people and not idealized figures.

Hmmm... Good point. If you are referring to the actual clothes they presented like jackets on mannequin and other accessories beside it then yes, there are some truly beautiful clothes presented in some issues. The drape and soft shoulder effects are quite pleasing to the eye.

However, in case of actual photographs of common people (on the street that is) those are often of very poor quality (picture quality that is) and after scanning from a 7-decade-old book it is not going to be great. Most of those pictures of real people are quite small so they would be about 200x200 resolution mostly, which is hardly enough for modern websites.

Finally, there were some horrible examples of fit and style in there as well. For example, comparing those pictures (in AA/Esky) with the ones that are posted by LL members at this forum will put them utterly to shame. We, here at LL, have MUCH higher standards for fit and styling of bespoke clothes than average “in-crowd” mentioned in AA. And that isn’t even remotely an exaggeration! Unless, of course you are referring to special people like Duke of Windsor, Anthony Eden, Biddle, Fairbanks and all the rest of George Frazier gang mentioned in the Art of wearing clothes article.

[Costi]

Etutee - I know, from needing to thank Costi for this, that the art of accepting a fine compliment is, sometimes, rather hard to execute.

[storeynicholas]

Costi - very good!
NJS

[whittaker]

Etutee, most of your articles, complete with pictures, sit bound into seasonal reference folders, adjacent to my sartorial inspiration shelf.

The articles embolden me to attempt new fusions of suits, shirts and ties. Sometimes a combination works, other times not, but in making the attempt I learn. It is unlikely that I would have attempted to wear a dark-blue striped shirt, a tie with a purple geometric pattern on a black ground with a gray herringbone suit, without the inspiration of one of your articles. It has become a favourite combination and spun off other ideas.

They also encourage me to have suits and other articles made in styles that I was not previously aware that I needed. My Rubinacci Gurkha shorts, similar to those in one of your summer pieces, are a favourite item of beachwear.

Your style is always readable, never too earnest, and benefits particularly from its digressive nature.

[ccox]

Etutee, I return to your articles time and again whenever I am in need of inspiration or the answer to a sartorial question (i.e. "what constitutes formal day wear?") I find them an invaluable resource, particularly in adapting the elegance of the 1930's to today. They keep me from becoming too "costumey." I also find it very helpful when you call attention to a particular detail that will have invariably escaped my notice. Usually something to do with fit or proportion or stylistic detailing.

I've actually tried to buy some of the AA's at auction (eBay) but have always been outbid. Your posts and the Rizzoli book, "Men in Style," are really the only resources available to me. So thank you for your dedication, interpretation and excellence in executing a series that is unparalleled in today's world.

(By the way, I will be happy to help with typing or something.)

[NicolausN]

Etutee:

I have read this thread since you started it and put a lot of thought into what I would like to see as a next topic. While watching television tonight I was suddenly struck by the idea of casual clothes. I'm not sure how to describe it except as casual or sport clothes in name. Worked out in practice, I would have to describe it as "dressing without a jacket." I've found that other than beach clothes, there doesn't seem to be that much material about dressing in an elegant manner when a jacket is unnecessary or outright inappropriate. I would love examples of how this would work in principle and demonstrated in practice by pictures. Also, if there were a way to actually pull off a jacket in such situations I'd love to see examples of that as well.

I hope my suggestion is appreciated. I know that I've gained a priceless amount of knowledge from the posts you've done so far. Thank you and I look forward to more in the future.

[RWS]

. . . . dressing in an elegant manner when a jacket is unnecessary or outright inappropriate. . . .

One could be très revanché and maintain that, off the beach, no such public occasion exists.

[NCW]

I can see that a number of people, including Midnight Blue and myself, are interested in having access to more images. I emailed Esquire, who renewed the copyright on AA in the 60s (I checked the US gov. records), to ask for permission to use the AA illustrations. (I assume that Etutee's articles are technically illegal, unless he specifically got permission which allowed him to use the images without attributing them to Esquire in each article.) This was with the aim of putting all the images we have up on Wikimedia Commons, and possibly Wikisource in October when I may be able to scan whole issues and post them.

I share the interest in having a reference website (LL seems to be mainly a forum) to promote good dressing, based on Etutee's articles, and I propose that such a website already exists: Wikipedia. It is currently pretty rubbish on our sort of clothing (the frock coat article exempt), but as our aim is to disseminate knowledge, I think it would actually be great if we could do a bit of editing and get that up to scratch. There is a lot of misinformation there, but it should be no harder to work on Wikipedia than to start our own site as suggested. There is an article on most items of clothing in which we are interested, and it is simply a matter of adding the right commentary. If other LLers are interested in making Wikipedia useful, we could make a group and identify a list of articles to work on. Etutee's articles are almost encyclopaedic already, so it would be easy to at least link to them there.

Of course, notwithstanding this, the original articles, with a dissection of each illustration, are fantastic, and any more are welcome. Thanks for agreeing to do the hats article, but do delegate wherever possible!

[countdemoney]

Etutee, most of your articles, complete with pictures, sit bound into seasonal reference folders, adjacent to my sartorial inspiration shelf.

The articles embolden me to attempt new fusions of suits, shirts and ties. Sometimes a combination works, other times not, but in making the attempt I learn.

Your style is always readable, never too earnest, and benefits particularly from its digressive nature.

My original response was not complete, and this is an exact match to my thoughts.

[RWS]

. . . . This was with the aim of putting all the images we have up on Wikimedia Commons, and possibly Wikisource . . . .

I share the interest in having a reference website (LL seems to be mainly a forum) to promote good dressing, based on Etutee's articles, and I propose that such a website already exists: Wikipedia. . . .

I am leary of putting anything of value into Wikipedia, as open editing allows anyone, knowledgeable or ignorant, well-meaning or destructive, so to edit and reëdit as to render useless and risible anything posted there.

However, a "Wiki" could be added to the Lounge. Having a reference section here, visible to one and all but editable only by Loungers, would be safer and more convenient than establishing a separate website.

[NCW]

I agree that Wikipedia can be rather dangerous, and some articles see far too much fiddling, such as "suit", but others, like "homburg (hat)" are very rarely modified and are pretty safe to work on without some massive 'edit war'. I still think this is a good way of working for the edification of the general public, and general promotion of correct dress.

[NicolausN]

I am leary of putting anything of value into Wikipedia, as open editing allows anyone, knowledgeable or ignorant, well-meaning or destructive, so to edit and reëdit as to render useless and risible anything posted there.

However, a "Wiki" could be added to the Lounge. Having a reference section here, visible to one and all but editable only by Loungers, would be safer and more convenient than establishing a separate website.

I second this opinion. I would even go so far as to say that only certain members of the Lounge be allowed to post edits to any Wiki associated with this site. A suggestion would be so many posts under your name so that trolls could be found and one cannot simply sign up and then edit away.

Another issue: if it's on the Lounge then do we not need Mr. Alden's permission at the very least? It seems presumptuous to plan changes to his site while he isn't even in the conversation.

Furthermore, I'd like to see the copyright issue fully dealt with before moving forward with any serious attempts at this idea. However, I'm fully for it nonetheless and would love to help.

[storeynicholas]

If such a feature were introduced, presumably there would be the moderators to sift original submissions (supported by authorities) and amendments (similarly supported) and it might become a very big job. However, there is little doubt that there would be enormous advantages for all in discussing it to propose it to MA.
NJS

[boxcar]

Thank you for including illustrations in your post.

I am especially fond of the 30s work of L. Fellows.

The illustrations provide the clothes w/ context that speaks volumes.

I get more from the illustrations than from pictures, which can be cold and even harsh. And while I do rely on the lessons that come with the illustrations, it is the illustrations that bring it all together.

I'd sure like to see posts with collections of ALL illustrations by decade. That would really provide some fodder for further contemplation.

I am new to LL. Between your post and Alden's post, I have learned a LOT in a few short days.

Thanks again!
Boxcar