New suit with pictures

[Frog in Suit]

Dear All,

I had written out my post and successfully loaded the pictures when Internet Explorer crashed. I wonder whether Bill Gates ever receives hate mail....

But I shall show the true English bulldog spirit, even though I am French, and start over.

These, then, are photographs of my fourth suit from Jones Chalk & Dawson (Meyer & Mortimer) which I picked up earlier this afternoon. It is the first SB with waistcoat.

I apologize for the quality of the pictures, in particular the angle which distorts the general appearance of the garment. Also, these were taken after a trip on the metro (it is hot down there!) and both shirt and suit seem to cling to my body which further distorts things (shirt cuff length among other aspects). The protruding stomach and awkward posture are alas all mine .

The cloth is from John G. Hardy, Dorchester book (14 oz twist "town and country suitings"), reference 1952.









I beg your kind indulgence.

Frog in Suit

[Gruto]

Nice suit!

[RWS]

Indeed. A few of the details (such as the flapped trouser pockets or even the double-venting of the coat) might not have been mine, but the suit looks well made and, better, good on you.

Thanks for showing it to us, FiS.

[YellowSamurai]

Excellent suit-nice vest!

[storeynicholas]

Dear Frog,
The great Brummell was once asked by the then Duke of Bedford, in St James's Street, to comment on his new coat. Brummell walked around the egregious Duke and then stopped in front of him and said: "Bedford, do you call this thing a coat?" But no repetition of that could be brought to bear here.
Very smart suit indeed. Criticisms? Well, first, and before that, the trousers (which make the gentleman), sit perfectly on your shoes - but, maybe, oxblood brogues would go better with it. The coat and w/c are excellent. Only one criticism of the suit - the bottom end (so to speak) of the trs is a leettle bit baggy - and I'd ask them to take it in a smidgeon. Apart from that, I am sure that you are a very fine surgeon/ advocat/ or whatever you may be..... but you would not, dear Frog, make a model, since you stand (even making allowance for the effects of le metro), as though you are about to defend your home, your castle..... Blandings (is it not)........ as any Englishman should....However, a very, very fine outfit.
best,
Ros Bif For Olde England.

[certain]

I mostly only forage around the lounge, and this in fact, would be my first post.(encouraged by your photos.)

I must say, that is a very lovely cloth you've chosen—I find it compliments the cutting of your jacket, waistcoat and trousers very well. Nice choice. Thank you for sharing your photographs.

—C

[iammatt]

I'm sorry, but this suit looks to have a lot of problems, especially in the shoulder area. The balance also looks way off to me. I think they need to seriously rework it, and possibly even remake it.

[Frog in Suit]

Dear All,

Thank you for your comments and suggestions.

I'm sorry, but this suit looks to have a lot of problems, especially in the shoulder area. The balance also looks way off to me. I think they need to seriously rework it, and possibly even remake it.

I see what you mean. The asimmetry and/or imbalance (pictures 1 and 3) are a product of the angle and the fact I was shifting my weight between my feet when my wife snapped no 3. In reality, the suit appears balanced and the shoulders even.
We find it is quite difficult to take good pictures of a suit. What angle should one choose to do it justice, for instance?* Also, I hate having my picture taken and automatically stiffen up when someone does.

Frog in Suit

*: Now, could there be material for a thread ("Suit Photography for Dummies") ?

[Guille]

I think the suit is excelent and the waistcoat is the best part of it. I modestly think that it would look even better without lapels.

[alden]

Dear Frog,

This is a very handsome suit. There is no need to have it redone, but there are some alterations that might improve it; there are also some points that need further investigation.

The photo that causes concern is #2. I suspect you were shifting your weight from front to back when the shutter snapped. If this is not the case and you stand normally in this fashion, then we have to look at a few balance issues. I have placed gray lines to show where the front and back are “kicking out” ie not adhering to the line of your body, not falling in a straight line but jutting outwards creating a gap between your body and the cloth. In doing so can you see that the vents are opening? If the balance is right they should remain closed and fall straight down; and there should be no gap between cloth and your body.



The overall line and length of the trousers is very good. The pleating in the back of the thigh is occurring because the “back rise” is too long. I have placed gray lines at the point where cloth can be removed to shorten the back rise. This should give you a cleaner line.



One final comment regards coat length. I would suggest you shorten the coat and open the front quarters slightly. It seems your torso is longer than your legs, so we need to show a bit more leg to get a balanced image.



As regards taking pictures, the best way to do so is with a tripod and automatic function on your camera. Your camera normally gives you 10 seconds before it releases the shutter. Just stand naturally and wait for the shutter to close. Voila.

Michael

[storeynicholas]

Anyone remember that picture of Fred Astaire in the db grey flannel suit in the thread about Cary Grant's NNW suit? He looks as though he is in motion (I know, I know, he was Fred Astaire) but it struck me at the time that, because he was in motion, he was really wearing the suit - he had put it on and forgotten all about it - to paraphrase Hardy Amies - and that way we get the whole picture. Maybe if you just wore the suit around the house for a day and left a camera lying about, your family could take pictures of you in it when you weren't expecting it and we would then get a fairer view of the eximious Frog in His Latest Suit and a fairer view of the suit itself since, having mentioned Brummell, earlier, the first John Meyer (of what became Meyer & Mortimer) was the tailor who cut Brummell the first fashionable pantaloons.
NJS

[Frog in Suit]

Dear Michael,

Many thanks for your thoughtful comments and helpful drawings.

As I look again at the pictures, I do see things which are not present when I look at myself in a mirror. I really think the presence of a camera, plus the fact that we were rushing to take the pictures led me to stand in an awkward and unnatural posture. I do not usually stand with my stomach pushed forward and my shoulders pulled back as in photo number 1. Mr. Munday is very painstaking; I cannot believe he would have let me walk out with such obvious problems.

As I wrote earlier, I hate having my picture taken and can never be natural when that happens. (many well-intentioned photographers, professionals as well as amateurs, have tried, and failed, to make me smile; the most they have achieved is to portray me wearing a grimace of exasperated pain, not unlike a tooth-ache sufferer at his worst enemy's funeral service). I shall keep your observations in mind whenever I wear the suit and check (and ask my wife to check) againt the points you make. I would wear the suit (Mr. Munday always asks me to do so) on my next visit anway and would bring up any of your questions.

Some more general information: Jones Chalk & Dawson (Meyer & Mortimer) have joined the "Savile Row Bespoke" group. Their name and history will be added to the site in the near (how near?) future. The SRB organisation is planning an event similar to the ones in Paris and in Tokyo, to take place in London, when they would close the Row to traffic for the evening. The magazine GQ is planning something on SR for the November issue.

Kind regards,

Frog in Suit

[alden]

I do not usually stand with my stomach pushed forward and my shoulders pulled back as in photo number 1. Mr. Munday is very painstaking; I cannot believe he would have let me walk out with such obvious problems.

Dear Frog,

I think this is the answer. The coat has been cut to account for a slightly stooped stance. When you set yourself in an erect stance, with your shoulders back, it creates the imbalance we see in picture #2. If you stoop forward, the front of the coat would come back onto you and the look should be completely different ie a proper SR fit.

This is a great lesson for all who are fitting clothes. Makes sure and stand the way you normally do to ensure that your clothes fit the way you really stand.

Cheers

[storeynicholas]

Maybe also remember MA's advice above when first being measured by a new tailor -because they note down posture, drops, prominences, asymmetries and idiosyncracies at this stage.
NJS

[Frog in Suit]

Dear all,
Again, many thanks for your time and your wisdom. I think that Mr. Munday, having met me now on quite a few occasions, has developed an accurate sense of my usual posture, which markedly differs from the way I stand when being photographed!

"As regards taking pictures, the best way to do so is with a tripod and automatic function on your camera. Your camera normally gives you 10 seconds before it releases the shutter. Just stand naturally and wait for the shutter to close. Voila.

Michael"

What angle should one shoot from? The normal eye level of the photographer? Higher, lower?

I shall test my Dear Wife's patience further and get her to take more pictures of my different suits. I do not think she has the time to snap away as we go about our daily business. It is a good idea, though.

Again, thank you.

Kind regards,

Frog in Suit