Davies & Son

[dopey]

Does anyone here have first-hand experience with Davies and Son? I know Mark Seitelman has had a good experience, but I don't think I have ever heard anything else.

[whittaker]

Yes, I have a single, positive experience.

Alan Bennett made a SB blue chalk-stripe suit for me that I am pleased with. I was surprised that after two fittings the suit was pretty much spot on. Exceptional for a first suit. I have always intended to return but I am delighted with my regular tailor and have not found a need. So far I categorise my Davies & Son experience as an experiment that went well.

Davies are able to accommodate the softer style that is my preference to a greater extent than Poole. The quality of workmanship is excellent. My only minor niggle is that they refuse to pattern match - they just say no.

[dopey]

Thank you. I am a bit puzzled by your comment on pattern matching. Do you mean matching the pocket flaps or balancing the lapels? That would be a surprise.

[Mark Seitelman]

I never made a special request of stripe matching at the shoulders or the collar-lapel. On my one striped suit there was no matching at this point although Johns & Pegg did matching. Johns is now incorporated into Davies. See F. Bown's review of Johns & Pegg at Bownsbespoke.com.

The patterns match at the pocket flaps and the lapels as well as the back seam and the sleeve seams.

[dopey]

I never made a special request of stripe matching at the shoulders or the collar-lapel. On my one striped suit there was no matching at this point although Johns & Pegg did matching. Johns is now incorporated into Davies. See F. Bown's review of Johns & Pegg at Bownsbespoke.com.

The patterns match at the pocket flaps and the lapels as well as the back seam and the sleeve seams.

This what I expect. Also, the horizontal line of patterns should line up from the body to the sleeves, which is why I am careful what I order on a first suit. Once cut, major adjustments to the sleeves can throw that off and it is easy to see when the pattern does it flow across.


Frankly, every example I have seen of matching at the lapel/collar seem looks weird - you can see the stretching and distortion. or maybe my is just not used to it. In any event, I don't want it.

[whittaker]

In my case, there is no pattern match at the pocket flaps.

[dopey]

In my case, there is no pattern match at the pocket flaps.

Interesting. Are you sure? If there is a dart running into the pocket, there is no match at the top of the flap, but there should be a match with the bottom of the flap. If the dart runs all the way through, then no match may be possible (would depend on the pattern and the dart).

If they just didn't want to do it, I would be very annoyed. I would be surprised if this was the case.

[Concordia]

In my case, there is no pattern match at the pocket flaps.

... If the dart runs all the way through, then no match may be possible (would depend on the pattern and the dart)...

Or, as is the case on some of my jackets, the match is at the front of the flap. The cutter does have to pick his spots, however, and the result can look a little odd-- especially when there is a ticket pocket sitting on the slimmest part of the waist.

[dopey]

In my case, there is no pattern match at the pocket flaps.

... If the dart runs all the way through, then no match may be possible (would depend on the pattern and the dart)...

Or, as is the case on some of my jackets, the match is at the front of the flap. The cutter does have to pick his spots, however, and the result can look a little odd-- especially when there is a ticket pocket sitting on the slimmest part of the waist.

Yep. But the point is the same - the cutter should at least be trying as best he (or she) can to keep the junction from looking jarring.

I have a hard time believing Davies just wouldn't bother, but Whittaker was there, not me.

[storeynicholas]

They are actually the oldest firm, apart from Ede & Ravenscroft (with name changes) and, maybe, Meyer & Mortimer (the original John Meyer invented the pantaloon trousers with Brummell). They used to be as hard as nails in terms of cut and the suits and coats that I had made there in the 1980s-1990s, by William (Bill) Matthews would stand against anything produced anywhere, anytime, for sheer - what's the word - bizaaz (I think that's how you spell it). Probably, 'flair' is the real word that I seek. I know they all say that the worst crime is to have one's clothes noticed - but the first suit that he built for me was in a very plain dark grey 13 oz woollen worsted; single-breasted three piece, with square cut fronts ('just blunted-off, sir!'), with a plain grey lining - but, by jingo and by jove! it had heads spinning. I confess that I had, for 25 years, been acclimatizing myself to being inside it - but that suit and I looked good together and isn't that what it's about? I can't say what Davies & Son are like now - gone 'soft', by the sound of it, like so much else in modern britain, and according to the above - but they have an unbroken tradition of over 200 years and many royal warrants and Hollywood clients behind them and I dare say that they know it. I Hope that it still shows. I am sure that it must.
NJS.

[dopey]

SJN:
Both Alan Bennett and now Robert Bailey (the newly arrived cutter) trained at Dege, so I am hoping the strong lined military cut is still in their repertoire.

[storeynicholas]

Let's hope so because, to my mind, there is nothing crisper than a military cut; especially across the shoulders and around the waist. Unforgiving of deformity (padding, sir?!!), a drop on a shoulder was just that - and perceptible too - because that's what you are! And they use to make the armholes oval and bigger too, for easy movement, maybe deriving from the need, in military - and certanly in cavalry - terms to be able to roll your arms about!
NJS.

[whittaker]

Interesting. Are you sure? If there is a dart running into the pocket, there is no match at the top of the flap, but there should be a match with the bottom of the flap. If the dart runs all the way through, then no match may be possible (would depend on the pattern and the dart).

There is a dart running into the pocket and you are correct that there is a match with the bottom of the flap.

Their resistance was more to stripe matching at the shoulders.

[storeynicholas]

This is probably because, if they are still of the hard school, their shoulders follow exactly the bodyline and, having just looked at one of their suits, which I can still get into, there is no attempt at stripe-matching fore and aft of the sholders and it would have been impossible - as I have quite a pronounced drop (just the right side of deformity) on the left, which puts the matching necessarily further out - indeed out of the question. However, maybe a softer approach could produce a different result as to my mind the shoulders always run off equally and a little padding no doubt, might help. However, I just don't know for certain - in fact, I'd never even noticed. Possibly, asking for this is a demand too far, sir! Thomas Mahon's website mentions that the perfect matching of A & S pocket flaps began as a Christmas prank. All the staff were allowed to make themselves a new suit and they conspired to work this miracle of detailed perfection to astonish at the Christmas party - but the governors had the last laugh because they prescribed that, thence forward, that's the way all A& S pockets should be!
NJS

[whittaker]

Possibly, asking for this is a demand too far, sir! Thomas Mahon's website mentions that the perfect matching of A & S pocket flaps began as a Christmas prank. All the staff were allowed to make themselves a new suit and they conspired to work this miracle of detailed perfection to astonish at the Christmas party - but the governors had the last laugh because they prescribed that, thence forward, that's the way all A& S pockets should be!

That's a funny tale. You are quite correct about expectations. I have become used to stripe-matching at the shoulder.

Davies's refusal would not have stood out except for the vehemence of the reply to the question. It was merely a minor niggle and I should not hesitate to return for a further commission.