Cloth top boots

[pbc]

I'm pleased to be able to ask for your help as I've been impressed with the depth and breadth of knowledge from this forum's participants.

I've become quite taken by cloth (or suede) top dress boots and would like to get some details. I've been through all the posts in the Dressing Room, Questions, and Article Archives and used the search to find answers. My apologies if I missed this information elsewhere. I've seen them with medium gray, dove gray, white, and cream tops. If you can help, I'd like your input on the following questions:

1. What top color and material is the most historically correct (for black leather)? (I'm partial to gray, but I like the others as well.)
2. Are they worn with both evening and day wear?
3. For white tops, is it best to have bright white, off-white (eggshell), or (slightly darker still) cream/ivory?
4. Can they be made with pearl buttons so as to facilitate their use without a button hook? The idea is that the (slightly larger) pearl-shape would actually help to open the button hole and pushing down over the button will fasten it.
5. The shoe seems a precarious place for any light-colored material. What material would be easiest to clean?
6. A suede top is very nice. Would it not develop areas of wear (creases) that might tarnish its clean, soft appeal? Would another material be better in this regard?
7. Are they ever made with patent leather, or always polished calf?

Thank you in advance.
pbc

[abrandow]

I've just ordered a pair of dress boots from my shoemaker (black calf with buff-coloured reverse-calf tops). I wanted him to use canvass or a heavy felt, but he said that no such material was available and that I would be much better off with leather as it was stiffer and would hold its shape. I would be very interested to know if anyone has a source for a cloth that might be suitable. I plan to wear them with my morning coat and a buff waistcoat (I'm to be married in the autumn and so am in no rush to have them finished). I suppose the boot tops should match the waistcoat which rules out grey, although that colour would seem to be more practical in the long run - or perhaps not?

I'll follow this post with great interest!

Adam

[pvpatty]

The same thing occurred to me just the other day, looking at some pictures of dress boots. How in God's name do you keep the uppers clean? You would have to be extremely careful buffing the bottom part with a brush too, in case you brush too high and put polish on the suede, cloth, etc.

[Sator]

I do know that Stefano Bemer has used silk velvet woven for the Kremlin on historical looms to make button boots. I only have experience with suede uppers which work well in that suede is softer than other leathers but hardier than fabric.

You see a wide variety of different colours in historical plates depicting Oxford boots and button boots. However, one particular combination, that of a black boot with a grey upper seems to be particularly common.











The most imminently wearable combination today is that of an upper of a colour closely matching the base such as this:



Contrasting coloured uppers do rather look like you are wearing spats.

[abrandow]

So is it or is it not advisable to wear light coloured uppers with a buff waistcoat? I agree that a grey/black combination would be more practical on a daily basis. The older gentleman in the image on the right, for example, is wearing a buff waistcoat and button boots with matching uppers, as one sees in the first image...

A.

[Sator]

Yes, it looks good but there is no need to match the colours of boot tops and waistcoat. If it happens fine, but otherwise I would not strive for such an effect.

It took me a while before I plucked up the courage to order a pair of boots with a light coloured top. This was the result:



I just got them last week. I am glad to get that out of my system, because although they look rather dandyish, they look like you are wearing spats, and rather attract a bit more attention. So that means I will only wear them for social events. There is also a break in the continuum from hem to shoe with a sudden "gap" of a lighter colour dividing them. This makes your legs look a little short too.

This is where I got the idea from:



It comes from Dimitri Gomez.

When I bespeak a pair of button boots I will ask for black or charcoal grey suede tops.

[Sator]

To answer further questions, patent leather button boots may be worn with evening dress in place of pumps. They should be plain toed - no toe cap, no brogueing. The illustrations I have all show dark coloured tops but I have never heard of this stated as being a rule.

Button boots with a punch cap like the example from Gomez are worn with day clothes only. As button boots are rather formal, it is preferable to limit their use to morning dress, although it would not be totally incorrect to wear them with something as informal as a lounge suit.

[storeynicholas]

These boots have what the cobblers call galosh tops and the best examples that I have seen are from Foster/Maxwell and Lobb's. In the Uk they often have a dark dove grey nubuck top with a seam down the middle and small shanked mop buttons up the outer side, which are done up with a buttonhook (takes some practice). Very smart, sir!!
NJS

[pbc]

I'm pleased to be able to ask for your help as I've been impressed with the depth and breadth of knowledge from this forum's participants.

I've become quite taken by cloth (or suede) top dress boots and would like to get some details. I've been through all the posts in the Dressing Room, Questions, and Article Archives and used the search to find answers. My apologies if I missed this information elsewhere. I've seen them with medium gray, dove gray, white, and cream tops. If you can help, I'd like your input on the following questions:

1. What top color and material is the most historically correct (for black leather)? (I'm partial to gray, but I like the others as well.)
2. Are they worn with both evening and day wear?
3. For white tops, is it best to have bright white, off-white (eggshell), or (slightly darker still) cream/ivory?
4. Can they be made with pearl buttons so as to facilitate their use without a button hook? The idea is that the (slightly larger) pearl-shape would actually help to open the button hole and pushing down over the button will fasten it.
5. The shoe seems a precarious place for any light-colored material. What material would be easiest to clean?
6. A suede top is very nice. Would it not develop areas of wear (creases) that might tarnish its clean, soft appeal? Would another material be better in this regard?
7. Are they ever made with patent leather, or always polished calf?

Thank you in advance.
pbc

From the input so far, here are the answers I have:

1. Canvas, linen, and suede are all correct. Colors range from black to gray to white and include cream, buff, and tan. It is a matter of preference. Gray, especially in a darker shade, is more versatile. Suede stands up better than cloth.
2. Can be worn with evening wear if they are without caps or brogueing. Possible even with lounge suits if the upper is dark.
3. High contrast looks like spats and is less versatile. No information yet on shades of white.

5. Shining the shoe would require covering the upper with something to prevent mishaps. I've read that some use masking tape. As for daily dirt, I don't know.

7. Can be patent leather.

I appreciate your input so far and especially the sharing of pictures. Would laces be preferable to buttons for versatility? Or is versatility more affected by color and style?

Sator, thank you for your comment on the contrasting color breaking the line of the legs. That's an important point I had not considered.

pbc

[abrandow]

These responses have been very helpful. Although I also took my inspiration from the beautiful boot by Dmitri Gomez, I think that I will speak to my shoemaker and change my order from a buff suede upper to grey nubuck. I agree with Sator that the contrasting lightness would cause a visual break between the shoe and the cuff and could give the impression of shorter legs. Also, grey/black seems a more appropriate combination to wear with a black waistcoat for more somber events and would be more discreet when paired with a dark lounge suit. Thank you all!

[HappyStroller]

From the point of view of personal taste, as I'm not a sartorial expert, since it's a day wedding, and I suppose Morning Dress is worn, the trousers worn would the standard grey with black vertical stripes. The striped pattern on the trousers should take care of any break caused by a contrasting boot top.

If the waistcoat is buff, then a buff boot top seems appropriate to me. However, I thought the bridegroom is supposed to be wearing a grey waistcoat, in which case a grey boot top is most complementary.

I like the look of button tops, in which case, the lower part of the boots have no buttonholes to be tied with laces anyway, as the buttoned looks seems to impart an extremely elegant look and an air of formality to the boots.

[Etutee]

I've become quite taken by cloth (or suede) top dress boots and would like to get some details. I've been through all the posts in the Dressing Room, Questions, and Article Archives and used the search to find answers. My apologies if I missed this information elsewhere. I've seen them with medium gray, dove gray, white, and cream tops.

May I ask why you are interested in them? It is 2008 after all

anyways here are some answers (if they haven't been answered already)

1. What top color and material is the most historically correct (for black leather)? (I'm partial to gray, but I like the others as well.)

Depends. It is a very old style. Dress code rules drastically changed after WW I. So it will be before that or after. They didn't survive very long after WW I, well at least certainly not to levels of popularity enjoyed before it. After the war a few colors were popular; buff, fawn, cream and grey comes to mind. Almost never seen in pure white after the war...

2. Are they worn with both evening and day wear?

The correct answer will emphasize "were worn" and yes in both day and night, there were slight differences in these two versions.

3. For white tops, is it best to have bright white, off-white (eggshell), or (slightly darker still) cream/ivory?

Please refrain from pure white at all costs. Heck any shades all together. The lightest you want to go is darker ivory maybe cream.

4. Can they be made with pearl buttons so as to facilitate their use without a button hook? The idea is that the (slightly larger) pearl-shape would actually help to open the button hole and pushing down over the button will fasten it.

They can be made with pearl buttons but I am not sure about “without the hook” part. I have never seen anyone close them with there hands alone. The proper versions were made such that the overlapping area of the upper was slightly shorter or less than what was needed to create a perfect overlap. This was done to insure an air tight “glove-like” fit. It is very hard to close the proper ones without the hook.

The ones made in recent years and certain imitations have them like that you can close them without the hook, thereby jeopardizing the fit of the upper the way it is meant to be worn. Unless you can buy them cheap this is not the route I recommend for these boots… not that I recommend getting them at all.

5. The shoe seems a precarious place for any light-colored material. What material would be easiest to clean?

Probably canvas or such derivative would be easier to clean than say box cloth or God forbid suede!

6. A suede top is very nice. Would it not develop areas of wear (creases) that might tarnish its clean, soft appeal? Would another material be better in this regard?

Yes. Canvas or some Linen form is much better for cleaning. Next is something like heavier felt box cloth.

7. Are they ever made with patent leather, or always polished calf?

Again the emphasis will be on “were”. And yes patent leather for day and night wear. Day versions with uppers in all the above mentioned colors and night ones only with black (most suede / nap finished leather) or much rarer in grosgrain.

[abrandow]

[floatinjoe]

If the waistcoat is buff, then a buff boot top seems appropriate to me. However, I thought the bridegroom is supposed to be wearing a grey waistcoat, in which case a grey boot top is most complementary.

HappyStroller,

I have never heard that the bridgegroom is supposed to wear a grey waistcoat. As you may have read in other threads, I am getting married this summer and am planning on getting waistcoat in the greater white/off-white families.

Mike