Greetings!
I'm a new member in New York City, by way of Texas. I've been reading and learning much over the past year. I started in styleforum, then moved to askandy because it seemed more educational. It seems my tastes are moving towards the British style lately, and I heard this was the place for that.
I recently read through the whole englishcut website, and I saw the recent Savile Row documentary. Before I jump into a Savile Row suit, I wanted to make sure it wasn't just romantic notions that are taking control.
Like I said, I've read a lot over the past year, but I haven't seen a lot. I still don't think I can honestly tell the difference between an Italian and a British cut. The only way I can identify an American suit is the typical single vent in the back, but I'm sure something is meant by the "sack suit" term. I also am still in the dark about the "soft" style of Anderson & Sheppard vs the more stiff "armor-like" styles.
Since I live in NYC, I'm sure there are places I can go to compare these things. I'm planning out my weekend. I will walk around the different midtown shops trying to discern style differences. Perhaps someone can offer suggestions?
I imagine Brioni will be the typical Italian suit, Hickey Freeman the typical American. From all the Savile Row reading lately, I don't know that I can get an idea of the British style from anything here. There is Turnbull and Asser, but it seems they are more of a shirt company than a suit maker. Any suggestions?
Another topic that I'm quite curious about, that I haven't seen discussed.
I have gone through major weight fluctuations over the last year. I went from 200 lbs (14.5 stone for the British folk!) to 175 lbs (12.5 stone) up to 225 lbs (16 stone) and now back down to 200 lbs. My goal is 160 lbs (11.5 stone)
I have it in my head, I will start to invest in quality clothes once I reach my idea weight. My discipline for food and exercise has only recently come under control, and it may be another year before I'm at my desired weight (Hopefully!). If you plan on losing weight, but think it will take a long time, how would you handle dressing yourself?
Would you
- continue with your ill-fitting, ugly old clothes "temporarily"?
- Purchase "hold over" clothes. Relatively inexpensive shirts and trousers. ( I don't need to wear a suit in everyday life, I just want to eventually)
- Purchase the good stuff now and inform the tailor your weight plans. I plan to lose 40 more pounds, so I'm not sure clothes can be altered that much.
A long post with many questions, but I think the answers would be beneficial to more than just myself.
Howdy and Where to start?
Hmm, did I ask too many questions for a first post? Did I miss a point of etiquette?
Excuse me if I did.
I've searched but have not read about these particular "how to learn" issues before.
Partial answers accepted!
Excuse me if I did.
I've searched but have not read about these particular "how to learn" issues before.
Partial answers accepted!
No breach of etiquette on your part. On mine, perhaps, a failure to welcome you to the Lounge.
I do think that a search of threads will yield a treasure chest of answers, though.
I do think that a search of threads will yield a treasure chest of answers, though.
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andreyb
Shawndo, if you want to see the difference, your best bet are manufacturers' web-sites and (even better) pictures of forums' members wearing clothes made for them.
Anderson & Sheppard (soft British) is at http://www.anderson-sheppard.co.uk/
Huntsman (structured British) is at http://www.h-huntsman.com/
Poole (middle of the road British) is at http://www.henrypoole.com/
Andrey
Anderson & Sheppard (soft British) is at http://www.anderson-sheppard.co.uk/
Huntsman (structured British) is at http://www.h-huntsman.com/
Poole (middle of the road British) is at http://www.henrypoole.com/
Andrey
Thank you,
I knew A&S was "soft", but I didn't know Pool was middle of the road or Huntsman was on the other side of the road.
Unfortunatly, I can only tell so much from pictures. I need to find a way to experience the difference of these styles in person. (Without flying to London)
I knew A&S was "soft", but I didn't know Pool was middle of the road or Huntsman was on the other side of the road.
Unfortunatly, I can only tell so much from pictures. I need to find a way to experience the difference of these styles in person. (Without flying to London)
Many of those firms come to NYC. Make an appointment, telling them that you're just there to look, not to buy, and plan to make it short. They're trying to turn a lot of revenue through those hotel suites, and you have to respect that.
They should be able to squeeze you in, and you'll probably see a few customers walking around with the firms' stuff on. At the very least, the staff will dress as they would prefer to dress you.
They should be able to squeeze you in, and you'll probably see a few customers walking around with the firms' stuff on. At the very least, the staff will dress as they would prefer to dress you.
Wow, that is an excellent idea. It never occurred to me.
Now I'm excited!
Now I'm excited!
If you call on the visiting tailors you may also be able to try on a coat for feel or see some in progress to learn about construction, if the tailor is so inclined.
It sounds as though (forgive me if I misinterpret) that you're still hoping to have a better idea what you'll be looking at, in the sense of comparative features. There are many threads here with detailed and illustrated discussions that might help prepare you, if you haven't exhausted them already. In the "Featured Articles" section, the thread on the "Neapolitan shoulder," for instance, has an excellent discussion of construction with numerous photos of shoulders and sleeveheads; some construction points also apply to English making and will help you notice variations in shoulder treatment, since, as with Neapolitans, there is variety available. Somewhere in one of Etutee's posts is a discussion of silhouette with helpful drawings showing various drape and blade cuts. There's a long thread somewhere on Iamatt's green Rubinacci odd jacket (with excellent photo) pointing out proportions, shoulder expression, drape, waist suppression, degree of open quarters, etc. If you compare those specific points with jackets on the Henry Poole web site, and then with Dege's or Huntsman's, you can see where the differences and similarities are in their "default" cuts. What's harder to get from pictures are things like firmness of internal structure, overall weight, the different feel of looser versus more fitted cut, armhole shape and height, etc.--but calling on the tailors will help there.
As for the target weight question, it's hard to advise. I believe our member Mark Seitelman may know someone who could share experience.
Good luck!
It sounds as though (forgive me if I misinterpret) that you're still hoping to have a better idea what you'll be looking at, in the sense of comparative features. There are many threads here with detailed and illustrated discussions that might help prepare you, if you haven't exhausted them already. In the "Featured Articles" section, the thread on the "Neapolitan shoulder," for instance, has an excellent discussion of construction with numerous photos of shoulders and sleeveheads; some construction points also apply to English making and will help you notice variations in shoulder treatment, since, as with Neapolitans, there is variety available. Somewhere in one of Etutee's posts is a discussion of silhouette with helpful drawings showing various drape and blade cuts. There's a long thread somewhere on Iamatt's green Rubinacci odd jacket (with excellent photo) pointing out proportions, shoulder expression, drape, waist suppression, degree of open quarters, etc. If you compare those specific points with jackets on the Henry Poole web site, and then with Dege's or Huntsman's, you can see where the differences and similarities are in their "default" cuts. What's harder to get from pictures are things like firmness of internal structure, overall weight, the different feel of looser versus more fitted cut, armhole shape and height, etc.--but calling on the tailors will help there.
As for the target weight question, it's hard to advise. I believe our member Mark Seitelman may know someone who could share experience.
Good luck!
Thanks for the info. I have been through the featured articles section and did read that "Neapolitan shoulder" article.
In the recent "CSE 2008" here in NYC, I spent quite a bit of time discussing many of these features with Jon Green. He was extremely gracious with his time and was very educational. I think I learned more in the hour I spent speaking with him than I did in the months reading all these forum posts!
He suggested that many of these features work for certain people based on their body types. I finally started reading one of Alan Flusser's books and he says the same thing.
This makes me internally debate how much is up to my taste, and how much should be determined by my physique.
According to Mr Green, the angle of my shoulder slope makes him think that I should probably avoid coats with heavy padding in the shoulder. I had previously thought that shoulder padding was purely a matter of taste.
I generally take a detail-oriented scientific approach to things when I'm learning, but with this, I'm starting to think that this job is what we pay the tailors for. I guess I need to categorize the features into "Leave it up to the tailor" or "Purely a matter of taste"
Also, I'm looking at the old photos in the Flusser book, and I think I'm more attracted to the Anderson and Sheppard style.
I thought I wouldn't because I hated the "baggy" look of the typical New York City Suit, which i associated with the term "drape" I'm seeing now that it is not even remotely similar! Baggy just means it doesn't fit properly!
In the recent "CSE 2008" here in NYC, I spent quite a bit of time discussing many of these features with Jon Green. He was extremely gracious with his time and was very educational. I think I learned more in the hour I spent speaking with him than I did in the months reading all these forum posts!
He suggested that many of these features work for certain people based on their body types. I finally started reading one of Alan Flusser's books and he says the same thing.
This makes me internally debate how much is up to my taste, and how much should be determined by my physique.
According to Mr Green, the angle of my shoulder slope makes him think that I should probably avoid coats with heavy padding in the shoulder. I had previously thought that shoulder padding was purely a matter of taste.
I generally take a detail-oriented scientific approach to things when I'm learning, but with this, I'm starting to think that this job is what we pay the tailors for. I guess I need to categorize the features into "Leave it up to the tailor" or "Purely a matter of taste"
Also, I'm looking at the old photos in the Flusser book, and I think I'm more attracted to the Anderson and Sheppard style.
I thought I wouldn't because I hated the "baggy" look of the typical New York City Suit, which i associated with the term "drape" I'm seeing now that it is not even remotely similar! Baggy just means it doesn't fit properly!
Steed and A&S will both be visiting NYC in April. You should be able to figure out pretty quickly if you would like their work on your back.
Shawndo, you've two other possibilities open to you as well. Come to the occasional gatherings of LL/NY: we discuss individual tailors and cuts, and we may well wear ensamples of their work. If you have the technical knowledge to do so, you could post in the Lounge a few photographs of yourself and ask for suggestions -- with explanations -- of the sorts of cuts that might best flatter your height and build.
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Mark Seitelman
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My recommendation is that you stablize your weight before embarking upon London or New York bespoke which can be very expensive.
If you get suits at the high end of your weight and if you lose a good amount of weight the suits will have to be re-cut. Do not expect a tailor to do a re-cut for free; it's very labor intensive. A re-cut can cost $1,000 or so if done right by the London tailor. If your weight loss is very dramatic, such as going from 225 to 160, then a re-cut may not be possible.
On the other hand, if you get suits when you are at the low point, let's say 170 lbs, and if you end-up at 215, then a you're stuck with the smaller size suit. You can let-out the coat and pants somewhat, but you may not be able to increase the shoulders and other dimensions if such is needed.
The general rule is that for every 7 lbs you lose or gain an inch.
Of course, some men are resigned to the fact that their weight will have wide swings. E.g., Jackie Gleason had wardrobes in three sizes.
I would say that a good interim measure is to buy suits at one of the more reasonable establishments, such as Mr. Ned or LS Clothiers. It will cost you about $800-1,000. LS can also make your shirts at very reasonable price. I can personally recommend LS, and you can mention me to Izzy, the owner.
Good luck.
If you get suits at the high end of your weight and if you lose a good amount of weight the suits will have to be re-cut. Do not expect a tailor to do a re-cut for free; it's very labor intensive. A re-cut can cost $1,000 or so if done right by the London tailor. If your weight loss is very dramatic, such as going from 225 to 160, then a re-cut may not be possible.
On the other hand, if you get suits when you are at the low point, let's say 170 lbs, and if you end-up at 215, then a you're stuck with the smaller size suit. You can let-out the coat and pants somewhat, but you may not be able to increase the shoulders and other dimensions if such is needed.
The general rule is that for every 7 lbs you lose or gain an inch.
Of course, some men are resigned to the fact that their weight will have wide swings. E.g., Jackie Gleason had wardrobes in three sizes.
I would say that a good interim measure is to buy suits at one of the more reasonable establishments, such as Mr. Ned or LS Clothiers. It will cost you about $800-1,000. LS can also make your shirts at very reasonable price. I can personally recommend LS, and you can mention me to Izzy, the owner.
Good luck.
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