Fresco jacketings
Miinnis and Smiths frescos do not have much that can be made up as summer odd jackets. Are there other fresco books out here that might have suitable jacketings?
I just went through this process of looking at all the fresco books for just such a jacket. I wanted it to be wearble for as long as possible, and to travel well, (which ruled out the lightest weights), to go with as many odd trousers as possible, to look equally OK with or without to a tie, and be easily dressable up or down, as circumstances warrant.
Oh, and I did not want a blue blazer.
In the end I concluded that the best choice is Minnis fresco, light navy (as opposed to the midnight), 9/10. Nothing else fit the bill nearly so well. The only other one that really tempted me as an alternative was Smith's blue gray, but in the end I thought it was too light to really "dress up" well.
To make it more sporty, I suggest 3 open patch pockets, 3 button roll 2. To make it not, technically, a blazer, go with brown horn buttons rather than brass.
Oh, and I did not want a blue blazer.
In the end I concluded that the best choice is Minnis fresco, light navy (as opposed to the midnight), 9/10. Nothing else fit the bill nearly so well. The only other one that really tempted me as an alternative was Smith's blue gray, but in the end I thought it was too light to really "dress up" well.
To make it more sporty, I suggest 3 open patch pockets, 3 button roll 2. To make it not, technically, a blazer, go with brown horn buttons rather than brass.
Do you mean this one? Ref 0520?
http://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardy ... =840443110?
If yes, I have it already. Very versatile indeed in two patch and welted breast pockets. The other one I have as an odd jacket is wheat ref 0519, in the same configuration.
Do you think this POW ref 0510 would make a decent odd jacket?
http://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardy ... =118400061?
http://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardy ... =840443110?
If yes, I have it already. Very versatile indeed in two patch and welted breast pockets. The other one I have as an odd jacket is wheat ref 0519, in the same configuration.
Do you think this POW ref 0510 would make a decent odd jacket?
http://www.hfw-huddersfield.co.uk/hardy ... =118400061?
Yeah, that's the one.
On that POW, no, I don't think it works. Glenplaid with an overcheck is a suit to me, unless it's a brown tweed with a rust check, like the LL Best of Both. But in black and white with a blue check, that's a suit.
The only way glen plad works as an odd jacket is in black and white, with no overcheck, and some surface interest. Either tweed, or (I like this option) a slubby wool/silk blend.
On that POW, no, I don't think it works. Glenplaid with an overcheck is a suit to me, unless it's a brown tweed with a rust check, like the LL Best of Both. But in black and white with a blue check, that's a suit.
The only way glen plad works as an odd jacket is in black and white, with no overcheck, and some surface interest. Either tweed, or (I like this option) a slubby wool/silk blend.
I agree that the POW is not ideal. Too few fresco sport jacketings around. Is anyone listening 
Manton, I think that finding such a versatile cloth, and jacket style, is a very challenging project though very relevant, particularly for traveling.
It's really the one jacket that I need and can't find. But it's really useful to think what this jacket would be.
When traveling, particularly on vacations, it's just too impractical to take more than 1 jacket and so, designing the 1 versatile, though chic, characterful jacket is a great project.
So what jacket to choose? This is certainly worth thinking about.
I remember spying a British gent once, while on vacation and bumping into him a few times in the hotel over the course a 3 day stay.
He was always impeccably dressed and looked appropriate wherever I found him.
He was obviously traveling on business but as the hotel was a bit of a seaside resort, I also saw him in the evenings in the bars, restaurants and also at poolside.
At breakfast, before his meetings, I found him ready to go in a spread, red bengal stripe shirt, blue/red regimental tie, mid-grey, light weight flannel trousers. In the evenings, in the lounge bar, he was dressed in cream linen trousers, light blue linen shirt with ascot. At poolside lunch, a bold striped shirt, white ducks and a Panama.
I wondered how he managed to create so many different striking looks - for business, evenings, recreation - while living out of a suitcase.
I think the answer is that he anchored everything around just one beautifully tailored blue blazer. Then he chose a few high value, harmonious shirts and trousers to go with it. One didn't even realize that he was wearing the same jacket throughout his trip as each outfit was so individual and different at each venue.
Traveling is a real challenge and it probably the utlimate exercise in tightly editing our wardrobes and choices for maximum impact.
As much as we love choice and diversity in our dress, from our tweeds, flannels, linens and everything in between, we can't pack all of those.
(Indeed, generally speaking, tightly editing our wardrobes, regardless of travel constraints, is probably the main challenge of the highly sophisticated dresser; but that is subject for another thread)
But I'd be very interested in learning peoples' go-to choices for travel wear based on their experiences.
But in terms of choosing the one odd jacket for travel, I think that the tried and true "blazer style" would probably best fit the bill. Much as our English gent did.
I think that the DB blue blazer, with horn buttons as you suggested, Manton, again in a mid-blue, is probably just about perfectly right. Though many aficionados steer clear of the blazer.
I am not sure about the other specs however, keeping in mind that we want a coat with loads of bespoke character and style, rather than the generic coat available in every men's store, in every town , of every size in America.
As a starter, I would guess that 2 such jackets are required: Summer weight and Winter weight.
Maybe for Summer, a 8 oz. linen or cotton or fresco. Maybe for Winter, a mid-weight. wool; I like cashmere myself. The fresco hand leaves me pretty unmoved.
Perhaps the Summercoat cut with a more casual, relaxed Neapolitan shoulder. A bit lighter blue. Something like Alden's linen suit coat pictured elsewhere (his suit is in cream).
The Winter in a bit more structured Savile Row shoulder. A bit darker blue.
Really, there is a lot to consider and think about. I'm not too concerned about practicality, such as non-wrinkling, but just designing that one great jacket that you will use when your other clothes have to stay at home.
Indeed, moving on to another subject, choice of shoes when traveling is another big issue to consider. They take up so much space. So what do you choose if you can choose only 1 or 2 pairs?
Anyway, I'd be happy to learn what others' best practices, experiences and thoughts are for the one best jacket, the best kind of shoe (or 2) for travel.
It's really the one jacket that I need and can't find. But it's really useful to think what this jacket would be.
When traveling, particularly on vacations, it's just too impractical to take more than 1 jacket and so, designing the 1 versatile, though chic, characterful jacket is a great project.
So what jacket to choose? This is certainly worth thinking about.
I remember spying a British gent once, while on vacation and bumping into him a few times in the hotel over the course a 3 day stay.
He was always impeccably dressed and looked appropriate wherever I found him.
He was obviously traveling on business but as the hotel was a bit of a seaside resort, I also saw him in the evenings in the bars, restaurants and also at poolside.
At breakfast, before his meetings, I found him ready to go in a spread, red bengal stripe shirt, blue/red regimental tie, mid-grey, light weight flannel trousers. In the evenings, in the lounge bar, he was dressed in cream linen trousers, light blue linen shirt with ascot. At poolside lunch, a bold striped shirt, white ducks and a Panama.
I wondered how he managed to create so many different striking looks - for business, evenings, recreation - while living out of a suitcase.
I think the answer is that he anchored everything around just one beautifully tailored blue blazer. Then he chose a few high value, harmonious shirts and trousers to go with it. One didn't even realize that he was wearing the same jacket throughout his trip as each outfit was so individual and different at each venue.
Traveling is a real challenge and it probably the utlimate exercise in tightly editing our wardrobes and choices for maximum impact.
As much as we love choice and diversity in our dress, from our tweeds, flannels, linens and everything in between, we can't pack all of those.
(Indeed, generally speaking, tightly editing our wardrobes, regardless of travel constraints, is probably the main challenge of the highly sophisticated dresser; but that is subject for another thread)
But I'd be very interested in learning peoples' go-to choices for travel wear based on their experiences.
But in terms of choosing the one odd jacket for travel, I think that the tried and true "blazer style" would probably best fit the bill. Much as our English gent did.
I think that the DB blue blazer, with horn buttons as you suggested, Manton, again in a mid-blue, is probably just about perfectly right. Though many aficionados steer clear of the blazer.
I am not sure about the other specs however, keeping in mind that we want a coat with loads of bespoke character and style, rather than the generic coat available in every men's store, in every town , of every size in America.
As a starter, I would guess that 2 such jackets are required: Summer weight and Winter weight.
Maybe for Summer, a 8 oz. linen or cotton or fresco. Maybe for Winter, a mid-weight. wool; I like cashmere myself. The fresco hand leaves me pretty unmoved.
Perhaps the Summercoat cut with a more casual, relaxed Neapolitan shoulder. A bit lighter blue. Something like Alden's linen suit coat pictured elsewhere (his suit is in cream).
The Winter in a bit more structured Savile Row shoulder. A bit darker blue.
Really, there is a lot to consider and think about. I'm not too concerned about practicality, such as non-wrinkling, but just designing that one great jacket that you will use when your other clothes have to stay at home.
Indeed, moving on to another subject, choice of shoes when traveling is another big issue to consider. They take up so much space. So what do you choose if you can choose only 1 or 2 pairs?
Anyway, I'd be happy to learn what others' best practices, experiences and thoughts are for the one best jacket, the best kind of shoe (or 2) for travel.
You have described what I often have referred to as the suit being the frame holding the Mona Lisa. The real challenge in dress is everything that lies within the frame. Your English gentleman clearly knew how to dress and that's the kind of thing I like to see discussed on the LL. Its something you rarely read elsewhere.I think the answer is that he anchored everything around just one beautifully tailored blue blazer. Then he chose a few high value, harmonious shirts and trousers to go with it. One didn't even realize that he was wearing the same jacket throughout his trip as each outfit was so individual and different at each venue.
Your thoughts clearly focus around air travel where limitations really have to made to what one can take into the cabin. Luggage gets lost and if its full of bespoke clothing, its a real shame.
The blue jacket in SB or DB is a great choice for the reasons you have described. Every time I have seen Gennaro Solito in Naples, over the years, he is wearing a dark blue coat and he always makes it look different.
To get away from blue, I have been working on a project that works browns as we often see in the AA illustrations:
Cheers
"Working on a project"
Tell us more Michael - you're teasing us with your vagueness! I find it hard to imagine a satisfactory brown fabric in an appropriately light weight cloth, but I'd love to be wrong. Perhaps you're working on commissioning a cloth?
Tell us more Michael - you're teasing us with your vagueness! I find it hard to imagine a satisfactory brown fabric in an appropriately light weight cloth, but I'd love to be wrong. Perhaps you're working on commissioning a cloth?
Indeed, those are all very beautiful shades of brown.
Quite an intriguing idea to substitue the color brown for the ubiquitous blue as in the blue blazer.
One could easily imagine the brown DB in middle illustration in particular as a very sophisticated alternative to the blue blazer and very versatile choice. Very nice idea.
What kind of cloth might that work best in...? Perhaps a linen or blend of some sort? I see it as a 3 season choice for all but the Winter.
Quite an intriguing idea to substitue the color brown for the ubiquitous blue as in the blue blazer.
One could easily imagine the brown DB in middle illustration in particular as a very sophisticated alternative to the blue blazer and very versatile choice. Very nice idea.
What kind of cloth might that work best in...? Perhaps a linen or blend of some sort? I see it as a 3 season choice for all but the Winter.
Uppercase:
9/10 fresco is fine for me up until the hottest days of summer. I'm not sure that linen would work for me as a travel jacket, but some day I may try it. A while back, Flusser had a great blue in 50/50 wool/linen, about 8/9 ounces, but it's gone now. I do have a length of blue linen in the absolutely perfect shade that I will one day make up into a suit, with white buttons. I suppose I can take that coat and use it as an odd jacket. But it's going to be a while.
DB was not in the cards for me, as I wanted the coat to be more "anonymous" if need be, something that I could spiff up with accessories, or make appear pretty plain to the non-discerning eye. SB fit the bill.
I have two heavier weight blue coats, one a flannel blazer with brass buttons, the other a fuzzy twill with blue horn buttons. They serve the winter weight purpose well.
What I need is something in more of a fall weight, a little lighter, and my eye has fixed on a brownish (but really quite colorful if you look closely) Shetland herringbone. It came highly recommended.
As to shoes ... it depends. On the length of the trip, the nature of the trip, and what other clothes I bring. I will sometimes take one pair of shoes on an overnighter to DC. I know, one should never wear shoes two days in a row, etc. But I only do it with RTW shoes, and not that often.
On longer trips, it's more complicated. I really need two pair. I just went to the UK, with one suit and one tweed odd jacket. I wore the jacket on the plane with EG Dovers in Almond country calf. The shoes were EG Berkeley, in Chestnut. The Berkeleys went with the suit, the Dovers with the coat. Worked OK.
Another pair I travel with are Lobb Lopez slip-ons. Very versatile, but they can't take a suit. If I need one pair to go with a suit AND a jacket reasonably well, I take a monk.
9/10 fresco is fine for me up until the hottest days of summer. I'm not sure that linen would work for me as a travel jacket, but some day I may try it. A while back, Flusser had a great blue in 50/50 wool/linen, about 8/9 ounces, but it's gone now. I do have a length of blue linen in the absolutely perfect shade that I will one day make up into a suit, with white buttons. I suppose I can take that coat and use it as an odd jacket. But it's going to be a while.
DB was not in the cards for me, as I wanted the coat to be more "anonymous" if need be, something that I could spiff up with accessories, or make appear pretty plain to the non-discerning eye. SB fit the bill.
I have two heavier weight blue coats, one a flannel blazer with brass buttons, the other a fuzzy twill with blue horn buttons. They serve the winter weight purpose well.
What I need is something in more of a fall weight, a little lighter, and my eye has fixed on a brownish (but really quite colorful if you look closely) Shetland herringbone. It came highly recommended.
As to shoes ... it depends. On the length of the trip, the nature of the trip, and what other clothes I bring. I will sometimes take one pair of shoes on an overnighter to DC. I know, one should never wear shoes two days in a row, etc. But I only do it with RTW shoes, and not that often.
On longer trips, it's more complicated. I really need two pair. I just went to the UK, with one suit and one tweed odd jacket. I wore the jacket on the plane with EG Dovers in Almond country calf. The shoes were EG Berkeley, in Chestnut. The Berkeleys went with the suit, the Dovers with the coat. Worked OK.
Another pair I travel with are Lobb Lopez slip-ons. Very versatile, but they can't take a suit. If I need one pair to go with a suit AND a jacket reasonably well, I take a monk.
Last edited by manton on Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Linen or cashmere. One of each would together cover 12 months.
I prefer more of an oatmeal color for the summer. That would also work in linen. Wear with white, oxford grey, light grey, Nantucket red...
I prefer more of an oatmeal color for the summer. That would also work in linen. Wear with white, oxford grey, light grey, Nantucket red...
What about summer trousers? We've all got some nice-ish khakis, I'll wager. And a mid gray worsted. Can't live without those.
What else?
Very light gray fresco. Cream gabardine. Maybe wheat fresco. Checked seersucker (stripes are too suity). Go-to-hell madras plaid?
What else?
Very light gray fresco. Cream gabardine. Maybe wheat fresco. Checked seersucker (stripes are too suity). Go-to-hell madras plaid?
I have been doing a lot of business travel the past few years, crossing timezones, climates, cultures etc. I do 2 weeks comfortably with a 22" carry-on and a briefcase.
For the warmer months, I wear a blue Minnis 9/10oz fresco coat with patch pockets when I leave home, pack a mid grey suit with extra pants, and wear a pair of linen or cotton pants. The grey suit pants double up as odd trousers.
For the cooler months, I leave home with a navy Minnis 14/15oz fresco coat with patch pockets, pack a dark grey plain or twill weave suit with extra pants, and wear a pair of moleskin pants. The grey pants do double duty.
In both instances, I pack about 6-7 shirts and ties. They are chosen to be as different as possible to maximize variety in appearance even though I only have an odd jacket and one suit with extra pants with me. A 3/4 length travel coat completes the packing,
As for shoes, the criteria is the two pairs that come with me must share the same shoe trees. I have a pair on when I leave home, keeping a pair with trees in the trolley. If I can, I always have a pair of cordovan shoes with me. They are the most versatile and fuss free. I used to run while on-the-road. Now I swim. Less to pack
Fresco coats are great for travel. They crease very little, are hardy and can traverse the outside elements and indoor airport dashes with relative ease. They are a bit coarse to start off with but with frequent use they soften up to mold to the body. I love mine to bits.
For the warmer months, I wear a blue Minnis 9/10oz fresco coat with patch pockets when I leave home, pack a mid grey suit with extra pants, and wear a pair of linen or cotton pants. The grey suit pants double up as odd trousers.
For the cooler months, I leave home with a navy Minnis 14/15oz fresco coat with patch pockets, pack a dark grey plain or twill weave suit with extra pants, and wear a pair of moleskin pants. The grey pants do double duty.
In both instances, I pack about 6-7 shirts and ties. They are chosen to be as different as possible to maximize variety in appearance even though I only have an odd jacket and one suit with extra pants with me. A 3/4 length travel coat completes the packing,
As for shoes, the criteria is the two pairs that come with me must share the same shoe trees. I have a pair on when I leave home, keeping a pair with trees in the trolley. If I can, I always have a pair of cordovan shoes with me. They are the most versatile and fuss free. I used to run while on-the-road. Now I swim. Less to pack
Fresco coats are great for travel. They crease very little, are hardy and can traverse the outside elements and indoor airport dashes with relative ease. They are a bit coarse to start off with but with frequent use they soften up to mold to the body. I love mine to bits.
Last edited by kolecho on Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Khakis, linen, mid grey and wheat frescos.manton wrote:What about summer trousers? We've all got some nice-ish khakis, I'll wager. And a mid gray worsted. Can't live without those.
What else?
Very light gray fresco. Cream gabardine. Maybe wheat fresco. Checked seersucker (stripes are too suity). Go-to-hell madras plaid?
Indeed, the solid Italian dressers know what works for them and stick with a few basics.The blue jacket in SB or DB is a great choice for the reasons you have described. Every time I have seen Gennaro Solito in Naples, over the years, he is wearing a dark blue coat and he always makes it look different.
I've seen any number of them, time and time again, wear the same coat or suit, but they mix it up and they look great in it. This has to come with time and experience and knowing what looks good on you.
They don't seem to be clothes horses, accumulating clothes, but rather dressers with a strictly edited, consistent, harmonious approach to dressing.
I've seen Maurizio Marinella wear his same standard blue suit (by his pal, Solito) any number of times, but he uses it as a foil to highlight his ties. Mariano Rubinacci favors a blue SB blazer, I would guess in hopsack; again, he wears it with jeans to flannels and always looks comfortable, put together.
Here's a shot of the exuberant Carlo Andreacchio , Mario's son-in-law, from A.Caraceni Milano in a Summer DB blazer, perhaps in cotton, one of his favorities, which I've seen him dress in many different ways:
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