Strollers gone - why?

[Guille]

Hello fellow members,

I know this has been mentioned before, but I wonder what the majority thinks. Why have strollers disappeared? I mean, of course, the simplest answer would be that western formalwear has been disappearing since WW2. But why are morning coats more common than strollers, if they are more formal (and in these cases, the most formal disappears first, as it has happened with formal eveningwear)?

In Spain, strollers never actually reached to exist, or at least never became common enough to notice it: when formal, morning coats were worn, and if the occasion wasn't formal, the men would simply wear suits. But in Europe and the US the stroller did have its popularity, specially during the interbellum, and that is why I wonder, how is it that morning coats are worn more often (at least in Europe, because some of you in the US say that strollers are common for weddings, etc).

Manton, in his speech "Wedding Attire in the Modern world" suggests that this may because the stroller was initially worn as business wear. Then, as it became slowly substituted by the suit, it became somewhat of a rarity, only worn by old-fashioned men. Whereas in the case of eveningwear, it was never worn for business (unless, I guess, for meetings in the afternoon/evening (can anyone confirm this?), but never to the office). But I wonder what other members (venerated or not) think about this?

I personally think that what has happened is very much what happened initially in Spain. For formal occasions, we still wear the morning coat, as these have become such isolated events (weddings, funerals, official state ceremonies...?). And when it is not strictly formal, we go for a formal suit (like for a baptisms).

[Concordia]

For a recent MET Opera broadcast, I noticed Placido Domingo wearing a variant of one. This was on a cold Saturday afternoon, and it struck just the right blend of formality and coziness. Perhaps he is by now cosmopolitan enough that he doesn't take his personal style from Spain?

[Mark Seitelman]

The stroller has disappeared in America due to increasing informality and relaxed dress standards. It has entered the realm of costume.

Occasionally, you can see a man wearing a stroller, such as:

1. a very recent visit to the dining room of the Harmonie Club (NYC) for Sunday brunch. The maitre d'hotel wore one.

2. the courtroom clerk in an appellate court, such as the clerk in the Court of Appeals, New York's highest court. You'll never see the attorneys in strollers.

3. concierge and registration staff at top hotels.

4. ushers at wealthy and traditional churches and synagogues on the major holidays.

5. the maitres d'hotel on the QE2 in the Queens Grill (about 10 years ago).

Other than the aforementioned examples, you'll never see a stroller on a "civilian" which is a shame in that we are losing our sense of "occasion" and "dressiness."

[Cufflink79]

I think the world could use a good dose of Etutee's fine post about formal daywear.

http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/vie ... php?t=6862

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

[Guille]

For a recent MET Opera broadcast, I noticed Placido Domingo wearing a variant of one. This was on a cold Saturday afternoon, and it struck just the right blend of formality and coziness. Perhaps he is by now cosmopolitan enough that he doesn't take his personal style from Spain?

Concordia, this is a real surprise for me. Can you remember which work he was performing? I would like to see him. Up to what I know, his tailor in Madrid is López Herbón, as you can see in my Madrid tailors table: http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/vie ... php?t=7130
However if he was wearing a stroller, I doubt it was made by this tailor (nor any spanish tailor for that matter). You see, we don't even have a term in Spanish for the stroller (and I have done my search, but there really is none, nor have I found a photograph of a Spaniard wearing one (particularly, wearing one in Spain) from the past). So yes, I guess that (if the stroller was bespoke, which I suppose it was, given the man's fame and the fact that non-bespoke strollers aren't easy to find apart from rentals) the stroller was made by a non-spanish tailor, perhaps one in NYC (I believe he lives there for a big part of the year).

PS: Was he conducting or perfoming? I say this because if he was performing, he would possibly be wearing a stroller made by the costume designers. If he was conducting, then it was for sure his own clothes.

[Concordia]

He was conducting Romeo et Juliette. If the live Saturday shows are being screened in cinemas near you, it might be repeated some day.

I don't know if it was a purpose-built stroller, or if he just gathered together a dark grey suit jacket, mid-grey trousers, and a pale grey vest. Even though the vest was sort of a strange concoction-- neither a tall 6-button nor a short 3-button-- the whole rig had a nice air about it. Sort of a grown-up version of the preppy uniform of blazer & flannels. Perfect for a cold afternoon in a slightly plush auditorium.

[Sator]

I still wear the look fairly frequently to work. I like semi-formal daytime dress because you can mix and match more readily. If the trousers die you just get a new pair without being left with an orphaned coat. I nearly always order lounge suits in solid charcoal grey these days for the express purpose of wearing my morning trousers with them as "extra trousers".

[Mark Seitelman]

I still wear the look fairly frequently to work. I like semi-formal daytime dress because you can mix and match more readily. If the trousers die you just get a new pair without being left with an orphaned coat. I nearly always order lounge suits in solid charcoal grey these days for the express purpose of wearing my morning trousers with them as "extra trousers".

Sator, what is your occupation or profession?

[Sator]

Sator, what is your occupation or profession?

It matters little. Especially if I wear formal checked trousers. People have no idea what it is, except some of my much older patients (hint...hint...). They are very quick to complement my dress.

[Sator]

Here it is - with formal striped trousers.



Gross affectation? Bizarre anachronism? Eccentric costume? Or simply classically stylish and thoroughly pragmatic?

[storeynicholas]

Not sure that anything assembled with so much care could attract the description 'pragmatic'!!

[Cordovan]

Lokks quite good in my opinion, but you can wear things like that to work? ...with the bouttenire as well?

Can we trade jobs?

Cordovan

[Sator]

OK I admit it... I drop the boutonnière for work. As for the rest, nobody even blinks an eye.

[storeynicholas]

I have, from time to time, worn a buttonhole - indeed I acquired the difficult knack of cultivating indoor gardenias in the UK (now they grow in a sheltered position out of the sun in our garden here) - and why not wear one? I wear them in my buttonhole and my wife wears them in her black hair. I recall being a child in an English country town where many older men would routinely wear a buttonhole - especially a rose - and one chap wore one every day - cultivated by himself, of course. We should not allow the considerations and comments of the increasingly vocal philistines and ignoramuses to cloud our judgment or to dissuade us from dressing, within reason, as we please. Once we start down that road, it is not far to the point where everyone is wearing shell suits, jeans and sneakers and the Londonlounge (floreat; floreat; floreat) has hit the dust.

[Mark Seitelman]

Bravo, Sator!

In the movies of the 1920's and 1930's doctors were often portrayed in formal day clothes. This is especially so with films taking place in the "smart" sections of town.

Again, bravo!