PLEASE don't ask me...

[Guest]

I do not know how I get these obsessions, but now somehoe I cannot stop thinking about a pair of Budapesters in black (I think it started with my happiness with the clothes I had made in Bucharest, a trip I had dreaded). I figure I should get them from either Kielman or Vass, Vass appears less expensive but this is not absolutely clear.

I have several questions about this type of shoe:

1) Is it appropriate for field wear? I mean, is it generally weather-resistant? I do not actually need it for field wear, but the weather here is so up and down (northeastern USA) that I need a critical mass of weather-resistant shoes.

2) What features should I be requesting? Would double-soles be good? I love scotch grain leather: would this look good on this sort of shoe? I was thinking of asking for Redenbach soles, but Kielman charges a premium for this feature. Is this significant? I have Redenbach soles on a re-crafted (Allen Edmonds) pair of CJ's and I am sure they are very good quality but do I need them?

3) How should I select between Kielman and Vass, or for that matter should I consider Balint or Saint Crispins? Are there other Mittel Europa craftsmen I should be considering?

[Mark Seitelman]

Vass has a representative in NYC, Gabor Halmos. I believe that hs number is on the Vass website.

You might find it easier to get fitted and order if you make an appointment to see him in NYC.

Good luck.

[BirdofSydney]

1) Is it appropriate for field wear? I mean, is it generally weather-resistant? I do not actually need it for field wear, but the weather here is so up and down (northeastern USA) that I need a critical mass of weather-resistant shoes.

I generally dislike black shoes for field wear full stop, as any dirt or mud splashes (even from a rainy day) is highly visible. That said, I will often wear them anyway.

I feel full (scotch) grain leather to be preferable, on the other hand, especially for actual field wear (i.e. off-road, or footpath anyway), smooth box calf scuffs and scratches too easily.

To my mind, this means getting scotch grain primarily in brown, not black. Even for ordinary use, the grain attracts dirt and dust into its cracks, and shows age more than smooth leather. A black pair will not stay looking dressy for as long, and is less dressy than smooth leather to begin with. It feels like a better idea to have a pair made in brown, to which age will bring a beautiful patina enhanced by the grain. It can fall into the more relaxed end of dress shoe, or give you an interesting casual shoe.

As the texture is already quite "busy", I would keep the design of the shoe as simple as possible to avoid bulk and focus the attention on the beautiful leather. An oxford would be preferable to a derby. A seamless design would look nice and sleek.

My understanding of the term "budapest" is a cap-toe with slight broguing around the cap and the edge of the upper? I must confess, for the reasons suggested above, that I personally would shy away from this in scotch leather. It makes the shoe a little busy, and tends to get dirtier quicker in wet weather. I imagine, too, that water getting into the holes would lead to some deterioration and make the shoe much harder to dry.

These are just my opinions of course, having never owned the shoes you have in mind, I may be quite off the mark. On the other hand, also, smooth leather budapests in black or brown would be a great buy, I think.

I hope my ruminations assist you in yours.

Regards,

Eden

[BirdofSydney]

I should add, I am a little more familiar with (though do not own) full-grain leather with a floating medallion design - the broguing punched in a pattern in the middle of the toe. As this doesn't add bulk, I'm a little more favourably disposed towards it. Of course, it would be a nightmare for wet weather!

-Eden

[bengal-stripe]

"My understanding of the term "budapest" is a cap-toe with slight broguing around the cap and the edge of the upper?

“Budapester”, as understood in continental Europe, is a full brogue derby (wingtip blucher). It’s got the open derby (blucher) lacing, wingtips, toe medallion, heel counter and heavy brogueing (in short, all the bells and whistles). The same style, but with a straight toecap, is known as “Viennese”.

It is a rather heavy design and therefore frequently comes with double leather soles.

[jcusey]

“Budapester”, as understood in continental Europe, is a full brogue derby (wingtip blucher). It’s got the open derby (blucher) lacing, wingtips, toe medallion, heel counter and heavy brogueing (in short, all the bells and whistles). The same style, but with a straight toecap, is known as “Viennese”.

It is a rather heavy design and therefore frequently comes with double leather soles.

It's interesting to note that Vass will call any wing-tip model a Budapester, even if it happens to be an oxford.

The classic Budapester will also have a Budapest-style last (high wall, slightly upturned round toe).

[Cruz Diez]

Dear Dr. Bresch,

The quintessential Budapester is double-soled, double or triple stitch, and made of brown or cognac pebble grain. Indeed, your preference for grained leather for such shoe is spot-on. I am not sure about how it would look with black scotch grain, however. Black scotch grain tends to look a bit artificial and does not age as beautifully as a good pebble grain in brown or cognac. If you need a black shoe, I would recommend smooth calf or cordovan. If you really want black grain, ask for several leather samples of the highest quality available before making any decisions.

If you are concerned about water proofing, cordovan would be your best bet. Ask for extra waxing of the flax threads used to sew the soles and welt. A true Budapester will have reverse welted construction, which, with the proper wax treatment, it will offer fair waterproofing. In addition, double soles provide more clearance for the eventual puddle during wet weather.

As regards the additional cost of Rendenbach, there are other sole manufacturers that produce a very good product, but cheaper. If you decide to commission from Kielman, Santa Croce soles (Italy) are almost as hard wearing as Rendenbach, vegetable-tanned and with similar anti-odor properties.

Finally, your point three depends on what you are looking for. Stylistically, if you like cookie cutter-like options offered by Vass, you may want to try them. However, if you want to design your shoe and last shape, Kielman is the best option. By default, Kielman does the Budapester last slightly square and with more definition at the toe, as opposed to the bulbous shape that distinguishes Vass. Personally I like both styles.

Best regards,
Miguel

[Guest]

Miguel, how the Hell do you know so much about those shoes?

[Guest]

Personally I don't like Budapesters, too bulky, but if you are going to make them, please don't do in black! The best bad-weather leather is cordovan in my opinion, but I don't see that very well on a budapester.

Giona.

[T4phage]

I am of the same mind as Giona... I have seen various 'Budapesters' in Germany and I find them to be rather.... Strong.

[Cruz Diez]

Miguel, how the Hell do you know so much about those shoes?

Dear Dr. Bresch,

The pebble grain Budapester is my favorite casual shoe style. I like them with tweeds, denim, and leather. Nonetheless, the shoes in smooth calf can be worn more formally. In Vienna and Zurich, for example, many elegant men can be seen wearing them with town suiting, with aplomb.

Cheers,
Miguel

[tattersall007]

I have Vass Budapesters in bordeaux shell cordovan but on their 'banana' last - less imposing than their Budapest last but also less distinctive. It is a heavy shoe with a double-sole and a thin rubber topy (purchased last year at Louis Boston).

I find it a superb shoe for the very wet winters in the pacific northwest and I very much like the way it looks with heavier flannel. It is by no means a sleek piece of footwear

Tony