New Member

[Kate]

Hello everyone I have just joined london lounge today, I am currently working for a bespoke tailor in the city of Chester in England. I have been working as a apprentice for our tailor at Beno Dorn for fours years now and find it extremly rewarding and enjoyable the only downside being I am a Lady in this male dominated trade! I was wondering if you would so kind as to give your views on this for example would you feel confident with a woman tailor working on your bespoke suits? I would welcome any comments good or bad!! Thankyou

[Concordia]

It's been my observation that talent and taste don't discriminate by race or gender. However, it is not generally the case that women view clothes the same way men do. Paying special attention to communication will therefore be important as you build your practice.

About 15 years ago, there was a nice woman on the junior staff at Dege. My wife had her make a jacket, which turned out well.

Anyway, good luck, and welcome.

[alden]

Welcome Kate

I think there are some successful women tailors on the Row these days. When Brian Russell passed away, a young woman took over his practice. Some of her customers are members of the LL, they may be able to give some insight. There are also some noteworthy examples of ladies working as coatmakers as well.

You have chosen an excellent occupation. Be forewarned: Men can be pretty insufferable bores with their tailors, are you up to the task?

Cheers

Michael Alden

[Cufflink79]

Dear Kate:

Welcome to London Lounge, I think you'll find very valuable information here for your line of work.

Mr. Alden and the fellow gentlemen members of the LL have put together a tasteful, witty, & intellectual forum.

I wish you the very best of luck on your career, and once again welcome to the London Lounge.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

[couch]

Welcome, Kate. As mentioned, there are successful women tailoring on the Row. I couldn't judge to what extent any resistance to women might remain within the trade itself (your present and future colleagues). It seems to me your greatest challenge in terms of customers will be winning men's confidence that you will be able to advise them safely, not only on what flatters them, but what is correct for every situation and where the gray areas are. As has also been mentioned, these are conventions established by other men and most male tailors will have absorbed them not only through long apprenticeship (as you are) but from growing up and working among other men, as will their customers.

So for some men it may take an extra bit of recommendation before they trust your judgment on such things. And some men will simply be shy about discussing their figuration flaws, their wilder ideas about color or cut, or other foibles with a woman. I'm sure the same is true for some men regarding doctors--they're just more comfortable dealing with another man in such an intimate situation. But the analogy with doctors shows that these initial awkwardnesses can be overcome, and brilliant careers made.

I suspect these issues apply mostly to front-of-house work--cutters, etc--anyway. I don't know any men who object to women actually working on the garments. I believe the finishing (buttonholes, etc.) on my most recent suit from Poole was done by a woman, and I have never seen better work. So when and if you aspire to be a cutter or an independent artisan, you will have to win over some clients initially, but once people can recommend you confidently I doubt if much hesitation will remain. There aren't enough good tailors! (Especially here in the States).

[the tailor]

Welcome Kate.

If you stick with it, and learn our craft well, you will have no problems.

The fact is, there are not enough people coming into the ' trade', men or women.

Please feel free to contact me if I can assist you with anything.

All the best,

Des Merrion.

www.desmerrionbespoketailor.com

[HappyStroller]

On the contrary, Madam, I would prefer a lady tailor as my impression is that ladies seem to have a natural eye for cut. However, if the charges are high, the critical question would be whether the tailoring establishment has not only a Savile Row address, but also whether its reputation is or has been recognised by British royalty. How else can I be assured of several fittings, etc.?

So perhaps if you could join Henry Poole, H. Huntsman, Gieves & Hawkes, Dege & Skinner, etc., kindly let me know because I still can't decide which of those esteemed establishments to patronise.

[Kate]

Hello everybody thanks for the feedback it was really encouraging. Since the summer our tailor has become semi-retired and down sized from his three storie building, which is good and bad news for me. The bad news being my apprentiship at Beno Dorn is coming to an end. The good news is that I have always worked on the top floor in the workshop cutting and sewing but now we've moved to single floor workshop and I have gained more of an insight of how the business works and runs and I get to go front of house to meet the customer to gain there confidence.

It was great to hear from people of different contries. I have never had the oppuninty to visit the states and have always wondered about the Tailoring world of America. Some of my first jobs at Beno Dorn was the finishing and on reserching it does seem in alot of the cases that women are rarely seen front of house, but fortunatly as I said earlier this is changing for me!

It was wonderful to hear that a woman had taken over Mr Brian Russels practise on the row and if any of her customers have any feed back that would be good to hear? With recently meeting alot of our gentlemen customers relating to my post off Mr Alden have began to see what you mean about men being insufferable bores with there tailors, but I am confident I will be up to this task!!

And I would like that thank Mr Des Merrion for welcoming me its always great to hear from fellow Tailors. OK, well I could go on writing all day but feel I may have gone on a bit to long with my first reply post I am just so overwhelmed with all my positive feedback. Thankyou all!

[Martin Stall]

Welcome Kate! Be sure to keep us up to date on how things go with you, ok? And as for us men&dealing with professionally: if you're as charming as from your writing you would seem to be , you'll have no problem.

[Kate]

Hello, Ill be sure to keep you posted on everything! I have started going in on my days off to practise jobs I dont feel as confident on. One of main aims is to master the trousers with no help from our Tailor, covering every stadge from taking measurements, cutting and the making up (as you can imagine my family and friends are well supplied with trousers!!) With this I was wondering what you gentlemen look for within a pair of trousers for example different colour linnings, certain pockets? Any ideas would be great, Thankyou!

[RWS]

I like my trousers to fit well enough to stay put (without uncomfortable restriction, however) around my natural waist without need for belt, side adjusters, or suspenders ("braces"), even though I general wear one or another of those aids.

If you can cut good-looking trousers that do so, you'd have another transatlantic client.

[culverwood]

I was wondering what you gentlemen look for within a pair of trousers for example different colour linings, certain pockets?

I do not look for features in particular; for me trousers are there to match the jacket if a suit, cover the legs and have pockets to put stuff in. The ability to tailor various styles of trouser are more important than the features and as this is bespoke that it fits is a given.

Most of my trousers may be fairly conventional single or double pleat with side adjusters but other's have different tastes and want a different style.

One of the best things someone starting in business can do is make contacts and already, here, you have started making them. I am sure Tom M's and Des M's businesses would not have grown as quickly before the Internet was around. It has enabled them to spread news of their work quickly to a knowledgeable audience. Having said that you need to be able to produce work of the quality that will stand up to the scrutiny of those on this forum and others before you take the big step they have.

One thing that I have noticed that young people in the tailoring/shoemaking business have trouble with is telling a client his idea is difficult/impossible to make, more mature craftspeople do not have this problem. The young ones end up trying but costing their company money and their client time when they cannot make it and make it look good. Know what you are capable of and be confident to tell a client that what he has chosen cannot be made to fit or will not work.

[Cufflink79]

I was wondering what you gentlemen look for within a pair of trousers for example different colour linnings, certain pockets? Any ideas would be great, Thankyou!

I enjoy trousers that are full cut and have a high rise to them.

Deep forward facing pleats.

Slightly slanted side pockets.

Cuffs on the bottom of the legs.

No belt loops, instead side adjusters.

Now if I can just find the time and money to get out to England to see you Kate.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

[HappyStroller]

For full suits, I usually order two pairs of pants, one using braces, the other using a belt.

The main difference between the two is the one to be used with braces is about 2 to 3 inches larger in the waist. The inner front brace buttons on the inside of the weistband start right above the front pleats; the outer front brace buttons are about 4 inches away from the inner front brace buttons. The back of the pants to be used with braces has a pair of fishtail ends, about 6 inches apart, behind which are attached the back brace buttons. Ideally, brace buttons should be saucer shaped and the sewing should be extremely strong with a well-defined column of thread standing between the saucer shaped bottom of the button and the waistband. The pants slightly tapers downwards, ending cuffless, with the rear bottom ideally slightly above the shoe heels. The cuffs slope higher towards the front, ending around the bottom of the row of shoe laces.

The belt loops on the waistband of the pants using a belt are long enough to allow the use of a belt up to 1 1/2 inches wide, though my belts are about 1 inch in width. I'm considering adding side adjusters so that the pants using a belt can accommodate temporary increases in abdominal size, up to 3 inches, say. The pants do not taper downwards, and end in horizontally-sloped cuffs at the height which just covers the bottom of the row of shoe laces.

For both type of pants, the rest of the details are the same:-

- A pair of single deep forward front pleats
- Very well-defined front crease for each leg
- Waist-high pants. With a well-endowed abdomen, the waistline of my pants has to be higher than the navel and pretty over the frontmost protuding part of my abdomen. When the pants are stretched flat on the table, the front waist line is actually horizontal. If the front waist line curves downwards towards the centre, somehow such a pair of pants will not maintain the desired rise.
- vertical side pockets
- 1 back pocket
- The front zip should be as long as possible so that I do not have to lower (which is especially quite impossible when wearing braces) the pants when attempting to relieve myself at a urinal bowl.
- The front of trousers closes with the usual centre button and a hook over loop setup.
- pearl-like or bone-like buttons used with good solid relaible sewing

[Jack_Rabbit]

Kate,

I've dropped you a PM which I hope may be of interest.

Regards

JackRabbit