silk vs bemberg

[Guest]

Not quite the same difference as between vinyl and leather
Oldog/oldtrix

I stand corrected - I misread rayon (which is indeed obtained from cellulose like Bemberg) for relon (which is one of many types of nylon). As far as the differences between obtaining cellulose from cotton or from pulp are concerned, all I remember is David from Balzac's Illusions perdues working them out, but that was paper, not fabric...

[Guest]

As far as the differences between obtaining cellulose from cotton or from pulp are concerned, all I remember is David from Balzac's Illusions perdues working them out, but that was paper, not fabric...

I don't remember that part. Oh well.

RJ

[Guest]

I have noticed alot of tailors use bemberg rayon lining rather than silk. Is there a reason for that apart from cost factors? Would you say higher quality suits are made with silk lining? does that apply for the trouser lining? thanks

1. Cost is a significant factor because bemberg is cheaper than silk lining. Typically, bemberg lining is included in the quoted price of the suit. Silk is an option. For those who elect to use Hermes scarves for lining the cost of the lining can be an extra $800 or so.

2. No, higher quality suits don't have silk lining. I have had RTW, MTM, and bespoke, and they all have bemberg lining as a default. Oxxford has its own bemberg lining with the Oxxford logo repeated as does Hickey Freeman, Kiton, Brioni, and other some other makers.

3. Generally, silk is an extra option where the buyer wants the garment to be extra special. E.g., some men buy ladies silk scarves (such as Hermes or Nicole Miller) for the coat lining. (It takes two scarves which are approx. 36' by 36".) In another example a silk lining color or print (typically paisley) may be unique and may not be found in the bemberg offerings.

Cheers.

Mark Seitelman

[Guest]

Mine come standard with silk and I have grown to like them very much. I find that I prefer the feel of the way silk slides to the way Bemberg does. The colors are also a bit more beautiful.

That said, if I had to pay GBP200 extra, I would most certainly pass.

iammatt

[Guest]

Mine come standard with silk and I have grown to like them very much. I find that I prefer the feel of the way silk slides to the way Bemberg does. The colors are also a bit more beautiful.

That said, if I had to pay GBP200 extra, I would most certainly pass.

iammatt

Also, were refills not free, I would choose Bemberg for the durability. Thankfully, they are.

[Guest]

Interesting. I've not had silk lining on anything made for me since the 1970s, but my memory (to which the few surviving garments attest) is that silk wore very well -- certainly no worse than Bemberg -- and breathed well, perhaps better than Bemberg. The difference between my experience and others' may be traceable to the particular linings I wore: jacquarded, diapered, or otherwise woven to be light and long lasting.

I wonder if such silk linings still exist.

[Guest]

'Sorry -- I forgot that I was posting in the "Anonymous" section.

RWS

[Guest]

As far as the differences between obtaining cellulose from cotton or from pulp are concerned, all I remember is David from Balzac's Illusions perdues working them out, but that was paper, not fabric...

I don't remember that part. Oh well.

RJ

"The problem does not lie in the manufacturing process; it is a
question of the first cost of the pulp. Alas, child, I am only a late
comer in a difficult path. As long ago as 1794, Mme. Masson tried to
use printed paper a second time; she succeeded, but what a price it
cost! The Marquis of Salisbury tried to use straw as a material in
1800, and the same idea occurred to Seguin in France in 1801. Those
sheets in your hand are made from the common rush, the _arundo
phragmites_, but I shall try nettles and thistles; [...]"

...and so on, and so forth - half of the book goes on about replacing linen and cotton rags which were used as a raw material for manufacturing paper with crude vegetal material. That is the one illusion he did not lose: his invention worked!

[Guest]

Emerzine is available from Bernstein & Banleys and Richard Weldon. I have used both. The stuff from B&B is just a tad less porous than the stuff from Weldon, and B&B's is also smoother than Weldon's. I have not detected any discernible difference between the two thus in everyday use. Emerzine is definitely more porous than Japanese Bemberg. Some tailors in Hong Kong refer to emerzine as English Bemberg.

If one were to get a jacket in fresco, be sure to complement it with emerzine and light chest canvassing to keep the jacket airy for its intended warm weather purpose.

[Guest]

Spoke tonight with Jay Greenfield of Martin Greenfield Clothiers.

Unless specifically ordered, silk is not used over bemberg because:

1. silk is too hot and doesn't breath as well as bemberg;

2. bemberg drapes better; and

3. bemberg is more durable.

[Guest]

Spoke tonight with Jay Greenfield of Martin Greenfield Clothiers.

Unless specifically ordered, silk is not used over bemberg because:

1. silk is too hot and doesn't breath as well as bemberg;

2. bemberg drapes better; and

3. bemberg is more durable.

My thinking would be that they avoid it because it is more expensive and a bit harder to deal with. RTW manufacturers do not want to put the time and money into doing the best job, and by claiming it is better they get away with duping the unsuspecting, and often unsophisticated, client.

[Guest]

Spoke tonight with Jay Greenfield of Martin Greenfield Clothiers.

Unless specifically ordered, silk is not used over bemberg because:

1. silk is too hot and doesn't breath as well as bemberg;

2. bemberg drapes better; and

3. bemberg is more durable.

I have often heard these explanations. So often, that I can't recall the original source. It could be myth or just received but untested wisdom. But no tailor has ever suggested a silk lining to me, making me think it is really just something you can have if you like, but not recommended on the merits. I doubt price is really the issue, as tailors are happy to show you much more expensive cloths and charge you extra for them.

I do however, recall Dege commissioning some special silks and offering to line a suit with them as a free promotional item if you ordered a suit on one of their visits. I was at the fitting, not ordering, stage of the cycle and didn't bother to look at them or discuss it, so I can't say what their view really is of silk as a lining material.

[Guest]

The dope who left his name off the last post was me. Sorry.

[Guest]

Chipp used to make silk available for an upcharge. They had some nice foulards, and would also use Liberty scarves. Nice with a tweed sports jacket-- could get a little old with a suit worn frequently, I suppose.

[Guest]

Chipp used to make silk available for an upcharge. They had some nice foulards, and would also use Liberty scarves. Nice with a tweed sports jacket-- could get a little old with a suit worn frequently, I suppose.

-- Concordia