Bespoke shirts - advice needed

[sartorius]

Gentlemen,

I would like to commission my first batch of bespoke shirts and am hoping for guidance from members. Here is a summary of my requirements:

1. I live in London and would therefore want to use someone here.

2. Whilst I would expect the finishing on a bespoke garment to be good, fit and quality of fabric are more important to me than finishing per se.

3. I would be commissioning shirts for both professional use (in my case law, which means something relatively sober) and leisure (I'm in my 30s and am reasonably fashion conscious, so would expect whoever I use to be able to source more contemporary fabric as well as the mainstay traditional stuff).

On a more specific note, I wonder whether anyone has experience of Richard James's bespoke shirt service? They have recently opened a bespoke-only store next to the old A&S premises on SR and I see that they are offering shirts as well as suits.

All advice and assistance gratefully received.

Sartorius.

[RWS]

I've been more than pleased with Budd over the years.

I, too, work as a lawyer and so generally dress soberly. Budd's fine cloths are in sufficient variety, and their excellent cutting (and very good sewing) satisfy my work-a-day needs.

For the fewer sporting and leisure-time shirts, I've supplied the cloth but would suppose that Budd could obtain anything British-made without trouble.

One small caution: you may do best by commissioning a single shirt, wearing it for a few weeks, commissioning a second, and then a third, before ordering several at once. Though Budd did well with my second and subsequent shirts, there's no harm in approaching perfection more closely.

[palmer]

You might try Dege & Skinner. Having tried other makers, I've found that I like Dege best. Dege offers a wide range of fabrics, and Robert Whittaker has done a great job getting my pattern right.

That said, you're in London and have the advantage of being able to visit a variety of excellent shirtmakers. I suggest that you spend a day meeting them and deciding for yourself whether you like them and their products. You can't go too far astray choosing a shirtmaked this way.

Good luck.

Best regards,

[Cantabrigian]

FWIW, if I were based in London, I would be most interested in trying Charvet or Hilditch & Key. I haven't used either but based on reputation and what I've seen of each, they would be the two on my short list.

I've been much less impressed with the quality I've seen from Budd and don't really know why so many people seem to think of them as being different from the rest of Jermyn St.

I can recommend staying away from Harvie & Hudson based on personal experience.

[whittaker]

After trying several in London, the only shirt maker I can recommend for consistency and high standards is Robert Whittaker at Dege & Skinner.

[sartorius]

Cantabrigian,

I've used Hilditch & Key for RTW shirts for years and have always been very happy with them. Years ago I enquired asked about bespoke, but they were so lacking in enthusiasm it was as if they were actually trying to put me off the idea! However, as I know and very much like their RTW shirts, I'd be very interested in your and anyone else's experience of H&K bespoke.

You also mention Charvet. I wasn't aware that Charvet offered bespoke in London. If they do, perhaps you could tell me more?

[Cantabrigian]

I don't think they offer bespoke in London. I'm just assuming that w/ Easyjet, etc. it's easy enough to get to Paris for fittings.

Another name that I had forgotten about - Frank Foster, if he's still in business. I've never been to the shop but we had a couple phone conversations when I thought I was going to be visiting London more frequently.

[Concordia]

After trying several in London, the only shirt maker I can recommend for consistency and high standards is Robert Whittaker at Dege & Skinner.

No relation?

[RWS]

As mentioned, much (as in any area) is a matter of taste. It may also be a matter of relationship.

I've no experience of D&S but, having heard them often praised by men with well-honed taste, don't doubt that their work is excellent. I do have extensive experience, off-the-peg and supposedly bespoke (actually MTM at most, I think), of H&K; I found their RTW very, very good, their bespoke, not worth the price or the effort. Again, your own experience may vary.

[HappyStroller]

Very wise suggestion, RSW. I shall follow your good advice, Sir, when I order my next customised Egyptian cotton shirt that is not bespoke (i.e., with fitting sessions), but that is offered M-T-M, though not just neck and sleeve length, via mail order.

...<snipped>...
One small caution: you may do best by commissioning a single shirt, wearing it for a few weeks, commissioning a second, and then a third, before ordering several at once. ...<snipped>..., there's no harm in approaching perfection more closely.

[andreyb]

I have some experience with Budd. This little shop has a soft spot in my heart... but I understand that they are not free from deficiencies -- some are very important.

To summarize negatives (in order of importance):

1.) They defy the very concept of "fitting" for shirts. They cut first shirt from initial order for you to try, wash and approve, but fitting with muslin shirt is a foreign concept for them. Or at least, this was what they said to me.

2.) They are not willing to adapt to client's needs. I was in London for a week, and asked if it is possible to make first shirt in one week's time -- to be able to try it on before my leave and discuss fit with the cutter. The answer was firmly "no".

(In my case, fit of the first shirt they sent was far from being perfect. I instructed them by phone on how to modify the pattern -- and fit of next shirt was much better. However, understandably this is far from being the ideal scenario, and end result might be considered as adequate at best.)

3.) Cloth selection is not impressive. They have Acorn book and... that's it. On positive side, they are willingly accept customers' own cloth.

4.) Needlework is acceptable, but not what one might call "beautiful". Seams are of good quality, but loose threads are abound. I asked to attach buttons by hand, and was unpleasantly surprised with end result:





However, their construction is better than that of another English shirtmaker I tried (Russell & Hodge). But clearly behind that of Italian maker (Leonardo Bugelli).

Positives are also apleny: small minimum order (only three shirts), affordable price (around 120GBP) and something one might call "English sensibility" -- which might or might not be your cup of tea. I wear my Budd shirts very, very often – which speaks a lot.

Said all these, I’ll probably pay them a visit and put a new order next time in London. But with clear understanding of what I’m going to get, and that [probably] there are better shirtmakers out there.

Andrey

[Cantabrigian]

Another consideration since you mentioned that you place a pretty high importance on fabric quality is which books they have available.

I believe - and I could very well be wrong on this - that most of the Jermyn St gang offer mainly Ringhart and Acorn fabrics. (Neither of which are particularly impressive IMO.) They all say that they offer Sea Island fabrics but I understand that to mean 140s + and I have no idea about the origin of those.

As far as I know, Emma Willis offers Alumo fabrics but she may be alone in that regard - I don't know about Udeshi or Dunhill.

[Concordia]

Dege carries Alumo, as does Sean O'Flynn, according to his website. And although I wouldn't put him in the same group of full-time shirtmakers, so does Tom Mahon (English Cut).

[rjman]

Emma Willis and Tom Mahon both offer the shirtmaking services of Rayner & Sturges, FWIW.

I've heard good things about David Gale at Dunhill, and I could imagine he might have a more varied fabric selection.

I also saw that New & Lingwood most recently was selling Sea Island cotton RTW shirts made with real WISICA Sea Island cotton, so I imagine they could get access to it for bespoke. However, I think people overestimate Sea Island cotton and Sea Island quality cotton. It's all right, but there are plenty of nice fine gauge cottons out there.

[tteplitzmd]

I liked this fellow. When I am in London next, I plan to have him make several "shirt jackets."

http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/directory/1200/25914.php