Kielman and other Eastern European shops

[Guest]

I wrote Kielman and asked him for a quote for a pair of shoes (model 26 on his site) in Scotch grain, he quotes 881 dollars with trees and delivery. I was under the impression that his shoes were considerably cheaper. Saint Crispins, recall, were 840 dollars for RTW/MTM. The cost of Balints escapes me, I think it was even higher. Does anyone know how much a typical pair costs from Vass or the other Eastern European artisans?

[RWS]

. . . Kielman . . . quotes 881 dollars with trees and delivery. . . .

Perhaps favorable publicity and growing custom have Kielman to increase prices. I'm disappointed (having begun to plan a visit), but such an increase would be understandable.

[RWS]

As (for some unknown reason) I can neither edit nor delete what I've posted, I state for clarification that I intended to type, ". . . have led Kielman to increase prices."

I hope that I've proofed this posting carefully enough!

[bengal-stripe]

Kielman’s shoes are fully bespoke, Saint Crispin (in that price range) are not: they will be handmade, but over a stock last.

The prices quoted is somewhere in the region of £ 480 or € 750. I presume Vass (fully bespoke) will clock in at approximately the same. But Vass fully bespoke is not as fully bespoke as some other maker’s product. At Vass you’ll get an existing design and last adjusted to your individual needs. All in all, Vass is rather inflexible (to keep the prices down). If you come with a picture of your ideal shoe to Kielman, they will make it up for you (judging by the website, I have no personal experience with them), Vass will not.

On the other hand, the Vass model of business might be more appropriate to deal with customers who are inexperienced with bespoke. You see a pair, you like them; you get them up in your individual size. Vass cuts out a number of variables, which will only confuse inexperienced customers.

To put it in perspective, you get three pair of bespoke Kielman's (with shoe trees thrown in) for one pair of bespoke Greens. Must be good value somewhere.

[Guest]

I actually wrote Kielman to ask about the discrepency between the prices on the web site and the price he quoted me. She wrote me back with an admirably clear reply. Am I a sucker for quick, courteous replies or what?

"Indeed the price differs from that on the website, however the price list reffers to shoes made from Polish or Italian soles leather, it does not include Rendenbach. Also Austrian Scotch Grain leather is extra paid.

Please bear in mind that in 2002 1 dollar was 4 zlotys whereas today it is
3,3 zlotys.

Here is our calculation:

Multilevel stitched shoes...2170,-zl = $657.57 Austrian Scotch Grain leather...250,-zl = $75.75 Rendenbach...150,-zl = $45.45 Cedar shoetrees...190,-zl = $57.57 Delivery to the USA...150,-zl = $45.45 Total amount... 2910,-zl = $881.79


I hope you will find my response clear."

I love this, and this was the norm in Romania too, highly intelligent, courteous service. A sort of new Eastern European ethic.

[RWS]

. . . . highly intelligent, courteous service. A sort of new Eastern European ethic.

Perhaps 1914-1992 will be wiped out, and the good old times return. I'm satisfied with Kielman's explanation.

As for Vass, though, I remain puzzled. On AAAC, John Cusey explained, just as Rolf has above, that the Hungarian shoemaker actually offers only ready-to-wear and made-to-measure (in, it seems, two levels) shoes. However, a review incorporated into Vass's own website states that "shoes of specific sizes are manufactured on unique, personalised bootlasts." Additionally, a poster on AAAC insists that the four pairs he travelled to Budapest to have made are all "bespoke" (and, to my admittedly untrained eye, at least one or two pairs in a photograph accompanying his post appeared not to have been made on one of Vass's general lasts). Does Vass, indeed, make truly bespoke shoes?

[bengal-stripe]

Maybe I haven’t made myself quite clear. Vass works on a model rather like couture houses of old. Here Monsieur Dior or Balenciaga would have presented a collection and the client, Madame Y or the Duchess of Z, would have ordered that particular dress in their size. Then that dress would have been made and fitted for a particular client. They might have made a different pattern from the catwalk sample, but only because the Duchess might have been a bit bigger and needed a few darts in strategic places. But the whole idea was to make it look like the original sample.

Vass has maybe twenty different shoe designs, about six different last shapes and a relatively small sample book of leather choices. Whether the last is made from scratch or is an adaptation of a stock model is relatively irrelevant. Ultimately your new shoes will fit as good as possible, or they do not. Perfect fit is the goal, doesn’t matter how you reach it. If Vass does not have a double monkstrap in their collection (I believe they do not), then they just will not make a totally new design especially for you.

I do not think there is anything wrong with the business model Vass uses. By reducing the number of variables they can keep the cost down.

Rolf

[RWS]

Thanks, Rolf. Your explanation does indeed clarify my understanding of Vass's offerings.

I've but one question more. If a customer were to choose one of Vass's standard designs, in one of their standard leathers, but be unable to fit one of their standard lasts perfectly, would Vass adapt a standard last to that customer's feet, carve an entirely new last, or decline to go further with the matter?

-- Robb

[Guest]

Can anyone tell me where one gets Vass shoes and how much they cost. I wrote the two agents for Vass and neither has replied. I know Mrs Vass once wrote me but I threw out her email with prices. In any event, my tastes have evolved considerably since I wrote her and now I would try to get a Budapester model in black scotch grain with double-soles, then I was on a more eccentric jaunt.

[RWS]

David --
I purchased my first pair through Gabor Halmos, managing director of Vass in the States. Though I met him at the AAAC "bespoke exposition", he may be reached at Suite 2, 151 Marine Street in City Island, New York (10464); at info@vass-shoes.com ; or at (917) 412-1703. You're certainly welcome to mention my name.

-- Robb Storm

[Concordia]

Does he take orders of any kind from City Island, or measure one for bespoke?

[Guest]

Thanks, I wrote that email but stil have no reply. Couldn't someone say how much the typical Vass shoe costs, and what choices I have for acquiring a pair?

[mpolanthan]

Concordia - Gabor takes orders for ready-made shoes only but he can assist with sizing information and make last recommendations.

David - I believe retail prices for Vass shoes in the US vary between $850 and $1200 depending on material used, shoe vs boot, and whether it's on the U-last. I would highly recommend calling Gabor if the emails didn't get through. A land-line number is listed here: http://www.vass-shoes.com/contact.htm .

[BenedictSpinola]

My Vass bespoke shoes cost 236,000 HUF for two pairs, including steel toe plates and shoe trees.

When I ordered my shoes I asked for the U-last toe shape without alterations, and so a custom last was made, based on my measurements and the U-last's toe shape. As for styling options, we did discuss a few variations and in the end I plumped for a plain toe black whole cut and a burgundy half brogue. For me at least, the whole process wouldn't have differed at all if I'd been to a shoemaker in London, where I would have looked at some pre-made samples to select the toe shape.

[Guest]

That works out to 570 dollars per pair. Was RTW less expensive?