Stripes Meeting at Collar, Lapels, and Shoulders

[Mark Seitelman]

On my last suit I noticed that the chalk stripes matched at the collar, lapels, and shoulder seams.

My prior suits from this same maker had near matches. Other suits from other makers had either near matches or no attempt to match. One maker would match the stripes on the left lapel, but the stripes on the right lapel were mismatched.

I have a few questions:

1. Is the matching of the stripes a function of the amount of cloth available? In other words, would the tailor have to order more cloth to line-up the stripes?

2. Is the matching of the stipes a function of the width of the stripes? E.g., the suit's stripes were approximately .5" apart. Is it harder to match the stripes when the the stripes are wider or where there is a multi-stripe?

Thanks.

[T4phage]

Hello Mark, I believe it is mainly a function of the distances between the stripes, and how much of an angle they are offset to one another. Try it with lined paper with different spacing.

Regards,
Jan

[Mark Seitelman]

This last weekend I discussed the issue with the people at the Oxxford Store.

The discussion was limited to Oxxford, however, it can be extended to almost any maker (bespoke workshop or factory).

Oxxford will meet the stripes at the seams upon request, and they did so on my last suit (without my request). Generally, they have found that most men are not particular about this issue, therefore, they do not always match the stripes. Most men are concerned with the cloth, styling, and ultimate fit. They have found this in their prior experience at other shops.

George, the manager, pulled out his new suit coat, and the stripes matched. He specificially ordered it this way.

They said that matching requires a little more cloth as well as skill and patience. It is more labor intensive.

With the exception of my last suit I have not seen this meticulous matching in my prior suits from Davies, Alan Flusser Custom, and Brooks Bros. (Martin Greenfield). My other suits have had either the collar match the lapel on one side or an attempt of symmetrical mis-matching at the collar lapel points and shoulder seams.

I like the look, and I shall request it in the future.

[Leonard Logsdail]

Fabric has a mind of it's own. A tailor can manouver it into all sorts of positions in order to gain different results - like the matching of the stripes from collar to lapel. Eventually, the cloth will start to return to where it wants to go. It may take a while, but return it will. The result will be a lapel that perhaps rolls below or above where it should. Or creasing in the collar. Not every time, but most of the time.

If a client asks me to match the stripe I have a standard reply. I do not recommend it, but if you insist, I will. But I cannot be held responsible for what happens after the suit has been worn a few times or cleaned.

I believe the tailor should ease and tempt the fabric to do things it does not want to do, but not force it.

Leonard

[jcusey]

A tailor can manouver it into all sorts of positions in order to gain different results - like the matching of the stripes from collar to lapel.

Leonard, how about matching stripes from the front of the jacket to the back? Is there any problem with that?

[Mark Seitelman]

Leonard:

You indicate that cloth has a mind of its own and that often the fabric will not work well when the stripes are matched.

How do you make that determination? Is it a sense of feel? Or is it experience with a particular line of cloth? (E.g., match the stripes with Lessers but not with Smiths.)

What do our other tailor-members think?

Thanks.

[alden]

Leonard has it right and its pretty much what I have heard from tailors over the years.

There is something about matching stripes that looks studied. Checks and windowanes are an entirely different story. They must be flawlessly matched. But matching stripes leave an altogether different impression for some reason.

[RWS]

. . . . There is something about matching stripes that looks studied. . . .

But, as striped suits are generally for business, perhaps that is not a bad thing. Certainly any imbalance should be symmetrical, as, for example, matching stripes on one lapel but not the other is unsettling to the viewer.

[Leonard Logsdail]

Dear Mark,

Matching stripes has nothing to do with origins (Smith's Lessers) but has a lot to do with fabric construction and weight of the cloth.

Some fabrics are pasked tightly in order to obtain a smooth silky feel. No room there to tease it into places it does not want to go. Same with lightweights - not enough guts in the yarn. Same with two ple warp and one ply weft - uneaven construction.

A good tailor will be able to tell how much he can "bend" a fabric simply by it's feel. And there really is only so much you can do with cloth before it rebels and starts forcing it's way back to it's original position.

Leonard

[BirdofSydney]

In my very humble opinion, there is also a risk in matching the stripes on very strong (i.e. black wide pinstripe) cloths, in that it produces a slightly overwhelming "op-art" type effect. In general, I'm in favour though, and with some patterns, checks especially, it feels like a must.

Cheers,

Eden

[Mark Seitelman]

An interesting discussion appears on www.bownsbespoke.com at the article on how to buy a bespoke suit and the review of Johns & Pegg.

Mr. Bown advocates matching.

[ICM]

http://asuitablewardrobe.dynend.com/201 ... style.html
This post from A Suitable Wardrobe showcases a smashing suit from WW Chan, with stripes matching from collar to lapel. One has to look close to see that they don't perfectly match (as Bown's stripes do), but that's probably because it wasn't requested that they match. Pictures of other suits from their website have the same detailing.

[old henry]

I am with Mr. Lenny. I could never figure out how a tailor can match the shoulder seams and still ease in the correct amount of fullness in the back shoulder seam . .. never could figure that one out..

[Jordan Marc]

Aside from striped fabrics having a mind of their own, a point well taken by tailors and pressers from long experience, no two men have the same physique or stance, so what works for one man will not work for another fellow. A bespoke suit must be cut for an individual with all his unique attributes and
shortcomings in mind. The same goes for all his bespoke accessories and shoes.

It's sheer foolishness to think that a good-looking suit worn by a model in a magazine or an actor on
screen will work for you. It doesn't matter if it was made in the 1930s or later. It was pinned for the shoot or tailored for the leading man, not you. Find the best tailor you can afford and let him make
a suit specifically for you.

JMB

[bquinn]

Thomas Mahon posted an article on this in his blog a few years back: http://www.englishcut.com/2005/11/08/th ... ng-myth-2/

It's an interesting explanation of the problem that Old Henry alluded to.