Greetings, and a Question

[jruley]

(deleted by original poster)

[jruley]

(deleted by original poster)

[dopey]

I don't know what you mean by woolen broadcloth. I am not sure if that is something no longer made or if it is just an archaic term for something still in production. If the latter, I imagine that any of the suiting merchants would have what you are looking for. I am guessing that you would be looking for 16oz worsteds. I believe you can get them from H. Lesser. J&J Minnis has some 15/16 oz flannels that might also be useful to you.

Perhaps a better definition of woolen broadcloth might elicit more help. If the term is in common use but just unfamiliar to me, then my apologies.

[alden]

Abimelech is the main source of fabrics of this kind. The distrubtor H.E. Box has some heavyweight cavalry twills etc. They do a good deal of enactment work as well, stage and cinema. You might give them a ring.

http://www.hebox.net/

M Alden

[jruley]

(deleted by original poster)

[Sator]

I think the term 'woolen broadcloth' was a bit confusing. I guess you are after woolen worsted and flannels.

The trouble is that a lot of modern worsteds are quite different in character to the ones found on antique and vintage coats. There are a lot of discussions on this subject here. Modern worsteds tend to be much more lightly woven and go down as far as 8 Oz. Even within living memory there was a time when 11/12 Oz was regarded as light. To get a coat to drape like a true vintage or antique styled coat you have to go up to at least 13 Oz and preferably higher. Unfortunately, quality worsteds and flannels in this range are hard to find. You must also avoid anything that is a 'Super' wool as this is a modern sales gimmick. I look at the worsteds on my collection of antique/vintage coats and I am amazed at the quality of the weaves. I think it almost impossible to find anything which matches it for its combination of full body, but yet softness and fineness of weave.

There are some makers of old fashioned quality using more tradtional weaving methods.

For flannels you can buy direct from J&J Minnis.

I think most will agree that H. Lesser's worsted have the most traditional feel to them. Your tailor should be able to order it in if he gets hold of the Lesser books.

[jruley]

(deleted by original poster)

[couch]

Traditional broadcloth is woolen, not worsted; these terms are mutually exclusive. It has to do with the kind of yarns used in the weaving and how they are spun. The kind of woolen broadcloth I am seeking has a "nap" which has been raised to obscure the weave and then sheared close, giving the cloth a shiny surface. It is also so densely woven and "fulled" that it will hold a cut edge without ravelling. (The lower edges of skirts on original frock coats are often unhemmed.)

What you describe here sounds a bit like melton, and a search should turn up some fairly recent discussions here about the (few) contemporary sources for melton with the guts of even 20 years ago. I've also seen some pretty bullet-proof serges from early 20th-C garments that would be hard to source now.

Manton showed some of us in the East Coast chapter a group of historical swatches from a noted U.K. distributor ranging in manufacture date from the late 1920s through the 1970s. These used densely spun yarns and were woven on older slow looms (lower thread tension and tighter packing) that are almost completely abaondoned for suitings today, because (among other things) of the extra labor required to monitor for and retie any broken threads (not needed on modern high-speed, high-tension automated looms; breaks are apparently simply left and the reloaded shuttles resume without interruption). The strength, resilience, and body of some of the swatches up through the '60s was enough to make you weep. Manton's source said there isn't anybody left now who knows how to operate those looms even if they were restored to service.

Alden will know more, but my impression is that some of the tweed mills are among the last making cloth of comparable density, and they are rare, if not endangered, birds.

I'm intrigued by your note about unhemmed edges on period frock coats. I don't at all wonder that the cloth might not ravel, but it seems an odd finish decision. Is it known that this was how the coats were designed? Might surviving examples have been shortened to remove wear or soiling, or to accommodate a shorter wearer?

[Sator]

I have a collection of some half a dozen antique to vintage morning and frock coats. They all had hemmed bottom edges when I checked them just now.

I have trouble identifying the weaves on many of them. Some of them are clearly baratheas. At least one is a probably a flannel. Another is a probably a serge weave.

[jruley]

(deleted by original poster)

[jruley]

(deleted by original poster)