Why Do Cashmere Coats Lose Their Shape?

[Sator]

Cashmere coats have a reputation for losing their shape. Does anyone know if this is an invariable characteristic of the fibre or whether it is dependent on other factors?

For example does the quality of the fibre (ie fibre length) impact on this? Also does weave influence things - Harrison's for example has a book of worsted cashmeres - does this confer the fabric greater resistance against losing shape?

Or is the tendency for cashmeres to lose their shape due to a combination of factors such as the modern tendency to use shorter fibre lengths with lighter weighted weaves? In which case was there a Golden Age when heavier weighted cashmeres with longer fibres kept their shape better?

Cashmere overcoats have a reputation for maintaining their shape. Is this due to the fact that overcoating tends to be heavier and/or due to the fact that they are worn less?

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[Mark Seitelman]

Yes, I have noticed this.

I do not have a definitie answer. Tashae at Oxxford explained that the stretching is due to loose weave. A loosely woven shetland will also stretch.

[Leonard Logsdail]

There are cashmeres, and then there are cashmeres. Just as there are tailors, and then there are tailors.

Not all cashmere's should be lumped in to the dumpser as losing there shape. Yes, it is a soft and luxurious fible that hadnles differently from those in suit fanrics. But with a good cashmere AND by having it well made, ie proper inner construction, in a few years you will will still be enjoying it. I have a cashmere jacket that is at least 6 ueasr old that I am very happt with.

leonard

[yachtie]

I have "milked" almost 14 years out of a cashmere sportcoat, The shape is fine but the cloth is losing its nap in the usual places (cuffs, skirt bottom etc.) So it's no longer as dressy as it once was, but still quite serviceable for puttering. I agree with Leonard, good cloth constructed well will provide longevity.

[Concordia]

Any favorite (or un-favorite) casmeres to report, either for sport jackets or topcoats?

[whnay.]

I have a Loro Piana tan cashmere sportcoat that has held up well now for just over 5 years. Admittedly I've worned it sparingly but time spent hanging in my closet hasn't had any ill effects.

[iammatt]

Any favorite (or un-favorite) casmeres to report, either for sport jackets or topcoats?

Well, I don't like the price and dislike many of the patterns, but for durability and quality you cannot do any better than Harrison's Millionaire book.

[yachtie]

Well, I don't like the price and dislike many of the patterns, but for durability and quality you cannot do any better than Harrison's Millionaire book.

Appropriately named.

[bry2000]

Zegna also has some nice cashmere jacketting.

[iammatt]

Well, I don't like the price and dislike many of the patterns, but for durability and quality you cannot do any better than Harrison's Millionaire book.

Appropriately named.

Yes, such a hit that they released the multi-Millionaire cashmere/vicuna book.

[Sator]

According to Harrisons, they use longer fibres for their worsted cashmeres. For the Multi-Millionaire worsted spun cashmere suiting they say they use a tighter setting which makes the cloth firmer, whereas the Millionaire cashmere jacketing is more loosely woven to give a softer feel.

I guess the Multi-Millionaire cashmere ought to keep its shape better if it is more tightly spun.

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[manton]

Some additional reasons:

1) Cashmere fibers are on average shorter than wool fibers, even the longest cashmere fibers. This makes it hard to spin really resilient yarn.

2) Cashmere fibers almost never have the same crimp and spring as the best wool.

3) Micronage matters. Cashmere is finer than all but the finest wool. This stuff is just by nature not tough.

4) It's also the marketplace. What the consumer who buys a cashmere jacket wants (apparently) is for the cloth to feel as soft and luxurious as possible. You can spin the yarns and weave the cloth to be as tough as possible, but you will lose something in the way of softness. The makers of high end brands calculate that their customer wants softness more than he wants durabilty.

[HappyStroller]

I see.

Does that mean that I should select a cashmere that is is least soft so that the jacket will stay in shape better?

And would more thickness or weight help?

Should the interfacing used be much stiffer than for normal wool worsteds?

...<snip>...
4) It's also the marketplace. What the consumer who buys a cashmere jacket wants (apparently) is for the cloth to feel as soft and luxurious as possible. You can spin the yarns and weave the cloth to be as tough as possible, but you will lose something in the way of softness. The makers of high end brands calculate that their customer wants softness more than he wants durabilty.

[bluscuro]

One of the joys of wearing cashmere is indeed it's softness. Both in the "hand" and silhouette.

The luxurious drape of cashmere is compromised if the garment is too structured. A sensitive approach to the choice of canvas/haircloth is required to preserve this characteristic. Cashmere must be allowed to flow and drape.

Manton's point re fibre length is most important in addressing the original question of "bagging". Superfine wool typically has staple lengths of more than three inches whereas cashmere is more in the order of 3.5 to 4cm., much shorter fibre. This must have a significant effect on the tensile strength of the yarn ,whether worsted or not.The pure cashmere worsted suitings now being offered would need to be woven from the longest staple yarns and highly twisted.

In my view , a pure cashmere suit is an uber luxury item and, as such, wear characteristics are of little concern.


bluscuro