Stroller fabrics: coats and trousers

[yachtie]

I'm thinking of comissioning a rig like the one in the left and I have a couple of questions:

1) what's the correct material for the coat ( worsted? flannel?)

2) should be material be flat black of is it better to have a sheen (mohair blends?)

3) what's correct for the pants? I know it's supposed to be stripes or checks but my favorite tailor has a bolt of silver/black "cats paw" worsted ( pattern looks like tiny black cat's paws) would that be suitable for the trousers?

[HappyStroller]

The Stroller is descended from the Morning Coat, which is SB.

I wonder whether the DB in the drawing can be called a Stroller, which is much less complicated. But it sure looks as smart as a Stroller.

Come to think of it, if the DB Blazer was created in 1837, that would precede the original smoking jacket (i.e., dinner jacket) of 1900 (?) by more than half a century. Also, the DB jacket in the form of the Blazer would be even older than the SB Stroller and other lounge/biz jackets. And the even shorter Spencer jacket was created in 1795!

[JamesT1]

I believe worsted is the standard for stroller jackets.

For the trousers, might I suggest a certain fabric with a "plus signs" pattern

~James

[Sator]

On vintage and antique formal coats I have only ever seen a worsted with a matt finish. That said, I feel that a mohair blend with an understated sheen is still appropriate for a summer coat.

[manton]

I would not do 6x3. 6x2, 6x1, 4x1, yes (6x2 preferred) but not 6x3. Definitely no patch pockets, if you want to be traditional. Besom only. (Or tuck in the flaps.)

Cloth would depend somewhat on the season the coat is to be worn in. Heavy barathea is lovely, but can't take summer heat. I agree that for a stroller, ordinary worsted is best avoided, lest the coat look like an orphaned suit jacket. For the morning coat this is less of a problem, since the cut is so strikingly different. I would skip anything with a sheen, unless the coat were specifically intended for summer, and even then, tread with caution.

Apparel Arts always described these coats as being flannel, cashmere, or vicuna. But, remember, we are talking about the 30s, when everything was cheaper (vicuna was not $5,000 a yard), and men as a matter of course wore warmer cloth and just suffered in hot weather.

The traditional trouser for a morning coat is a "cashmere stripe." It's not actually made of cashmere; that's just a term. That's the fancy, black/grey/silver/white stripe. Lesser and Smith both still carry several examples in their formal books. Others probably do, too.

Aleternatives for the morning coat would be a bold chalk stripe on a gray ground. You would also occasionally see herringbones and checks, always in the black/gray/silver/white palate. I think these are little more jaunty and perhaps pair better with a stroller. Sometimes (as in this pic) you see a stroller with black and white prince of wales plaid trousers.

I would have to see the cat's paw to say for sure, but it sounds like it might work.

[yachtie]

I believe worsted is the standard for stroller jackets.

For the trousers, might I suggest a certain fabric with a "plus signs" pattern

~James

I know just the one LOL

[SilkCity]

Query:
It appears that the bloke on the right (in the MS) is sporting a
striped shirt with a (likely detachable) white collar.

Does a MS or stroller get up take this, and is it as formal/correct as
solid white?

[manton]

Maybe less formal, but no less correct. In illustrations, you rarely see solid white. In actual photos (nearly all of which are B&W) it's hard to tell colors. But certainly you see a lot of stripes.

[Sator]

I would not do 6x3. 6x2, 6x1, 4x1, yes (6x2 preferred) but not 6x3.

Cloth would depend somewhat on the season the coat is to be worn in. Heavy barathea is lovely, but can't take summer heat. I agree that for a stroller, ordinary worsted is best avoided, lest the coat look like an orphaned suit jacket. For the morning coat this is less of a problem, since the cut is so strikingly different. I would skip anything with a sheen, unless the coat were specifically intended for summer, and even then, tread with caution.

I agree that the fabric should never have a plain worsted finish. One never sees that on vintage coats. As you say a barathea or a fialle weave would work well. Formal books are the place to look.

I am a little surprised you feel so strongly opposed to a 6x3. It is a difficult configuration to pull off well but JLiboural starting talking about having a stroller coat made thusly and despite having longed dismissed the 6x3 as historic costume (yes even I think like that sometimes) I thought...hmmm, yes it is conceivable that one could pull it off - but the coat would have to be cut exceptionally well.

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/foru ... hp?t=65848

I agree that in old illustrations shirts other than plain white are common, especially so after the Edwardian era, but even during that period.

[HappyStroller]

It's a bit difficult to mistake the Stroller jacket for an orphaned suit jacket, if I may be allowed to point out, for the following reasons:-

a. If black, the usual colour, most people will know it is not a typical lounge/business suit, or even sports, jacket;

b. It normally has only one button;

c. That one button is usually covered with black silk;

d. It has a peak lapel;

e. It is normally worn with a silver/grey or buff coloured vest; and,

f. It is worn with a grey/black+white/silver striped or checked pants.

And if one carries also a cane or black umbrella and wears a homburg or top hat nowadays, ...

And there's the compulsory pocket square and optional pocket watch with chain/fob.

But, following your esteemed guidance, my Morning Coat will be made of cashmere, the price of which is now within reach of the man-in-the-street, though maybe the cashmere Morning Coat may be twice the price for a worsted wool suit.

...<skip>...
I agree that for a stroller, ordinary worsted is best avoided, lest the coat look like an orphaned suit jacket. For the morning coat this is less of a problem, since the cut is so strikingly different.
...<snip>...
Apparel Arts always described these coats as being flannel, cashmere, or vicuna. But, remember, we are talking about the 30s, when everything was cheaper (vicuna was not $5,000 a yard), and men as a matter of course wore warmer cloth and just suffered in hot weather.
...<snip>...

[Sator]

It's a bit difficult to mistake the Stroller jacket for an orphaned suit jacket, if I may be allowed to point out, for the following reasons:-

a. If black, the usual colour, most people will know it is not a typical lounge/business suit, or even sports, jacket;

b. It normally has only one button;

c. That one button is usually covered with black silk;

d. It has a peak lapel;

a. People these days will think any black coat looks like a plain lounge coat

b. It can have more than one button

c. Stroller buttons should not be covered in silk

d. It preferably - but not necessarily - has peak lapels

[SilkCity]

Trousers: cuffs?

[manton]

Trousers: cuffs?

I wouldn't, though it would go too far to call cuffs on stroller trousers "incorrect." On morning coat trousers, definitely not.

[yachtie]

I've seen AA illustrations showing both cuffed and uncuffed trousers with strollers. It appears that the gent on the left has a grey or silver shirt with a white collar/cuffs. Is that common for these? I've usually seen a white shirt. Also, does one wear a studded shirt with a stroller?

[manton]

In AA illustrations, a detachable collar shirt with a colored or striped body was far more common than solid white. I can't say what was true in real life, except that in the occasional color photo I see of a contemporary European wedding, I also don't see much solid white.

Studs are necessary to attach the collar; otherwise the shirts had buttons up the front.