Are vintage hats better

[Matt Deckard]

You can argue the differences in tailors and quality of suits made today versus suits made yesterday, though when it comes to hats there is no doubt in my mind that the hats of yesterday are a much better product than you can find anywhere today.


1930's Dobb's

[Mark Seitelman]

Indeed, it may be true that the art of hatmaking is dying due to lack of customer demand.

However, there are a few bright candles flickering, such as Graham Thompson of Optimo.

When I started going to court in 1980 there were a few old time judges and lawyers who wore hats. Of course, I wore a hat only in the winter. Now all these veterans are either dead or retired, and I'm the old guy wearing a fedora in the courthouse!

[uppercase]

Changing of the guard, Mark!
But I'm sure that the hat gives you gravitas.
I need to add to my very small hat collection on a priority basis.
Next purchase: a Montecristi Panama, this Summer.
Alas, new, not vintage.

[jekarwoski]

Mr. Deckard,

What do think of as "vintage" or "hats of yesterday"? Those made in the 50's and earlier? The 40's? I'd imagine it would have to vary by maker...

I have a Worth and Worth (from the time they were still on Madison, maybe 12 years ago?) and a couple of Stetsons from the late 70's/early 80s, which is modern and certainly after Stetson's best years.

[Matt Deckard]

By the late 70's and early 80's Stetson was out of business and the name was being used by Hatco as it is today. Stetson isn't Stetson anymore.

The felt they were using for their dress hats is pretty much the same as it is today, very ununiform from one to the next. Stetson's felts are heavily powdered to even out the color and when they are hit by rain they tend to run, so beware, you can get your clothes messy. I have had a problem with modern Stetsons drooping and shrinking with inclement weather.

I wasn't a big fan of the hats I have had from Worth and Worth. The leather bands dried out quickly and soon had a very card board feel. The felt sagged quickly and broke down quickly, less than a year or so of wear before I had a hole in the crown.

You may hear alot of guff about Akubra, though in comparison I would consider their felt better than Worth and worth for it's ability to take rain and manhandiling.

I am not easy on my hats and I am spoiled by vintage, so when it comes to modern hatters there are very few that I like. Optimo being one of the companies that goes out of its way to recreate the dress hat felt made in the 30's and 40's.

[Matt Deckard]

Oh yeah....

The vintage hats do vary by maker and some were cheaply made and some were fantastic. Some of the better hats from the 30's 40's and 50's were Knox, Cavanagh, Borsalino, Stetson, (early) Malory, resistol.

Some of the lower end hats were Lee, Marathon, Adam, Emerson.

The lower end hats of back then were still better than many of the higher end hats of today, so if you find one that you like and if it fits, I'd say pick it up.

[RWS]

I like the idea of buying vintage, Matt (inculcated frugality heightened by waste-not-want-not idealism). But I am fastidious about cleanliness. It's easy to have an old sportcoat cleaned. How does one have an old felt hat cleaned? Will cleaning weaken the felt, or alter the size or fit of the old hat?

[Matt Deckard]

Unless there are heavy stains in the hat, the can can easilt be claened through and through by a competent hatter. Usually the liner, ribbon and sweat band are removed then the hat is dipped in a solution called naptha which disolves anything within the felt. The felt is not weakend from what I can tell. after the dip and other treatments for heavier stains, the hat is reblocked and put back together.

The size can be altered up or down a few sizes, and the ribbon, sweatband and liner can be replaced if you want.

[dopey]

I have been doing a “research project” comprised of buying vintage hats on e-bay. I can say now that I have come across some vintage felts that are better than anything I have seen new. I know I have not yet seen the best vintage felt and I have at least one coming that should be among the highest quality I have purchased. In fairness, I have not yet seen a top of the line new felt from Optimo or some of the boutique hatters either.

One note for here. I recently received a Cavanagh with a real Cavanagh edge, i.e., self welted. This is truly something special, although it is not necessarily the only or even most elegant brim finish. I am told it is no longer made or available. It may be possible if there was enough demand, which there does not seem to be.

RWS: I initially started buying with less than a clear sense of my size. If you wear a 7 ?, I may have some for you. I will have my Cavanagh resized down, so that is off the table (it needs more work than just that, though). Sorry.

[dopey]

REPOST WITH CORRECTION:

I have been doing a “research project” comprised of buying vintage hats on e-bay. I can say now that I have come across some vintage felts that are better than anything I have seen new. I know I have not yet seen the best vintage felt and I have at least one coming that should be among the highest quality I have purchased. In fairness, I have not yet seen a top of the line new felt from Optimo or some of the boutique hatters either.

One note for here. I recently received a Cavanagh with a real Cavanagh edge, i.e., self welted. This is truly something special, although it is not necessarily the only or even most elegant brim finish. I am told it is no longer made or available. It may be possible if there was enough demand, which there does not seem to be.

RWS: I initially started buying with less than a clear sense of my size. If you wear a 7 and one eighth, I may have some for you. I will have my Cavanagh resized down, so that is off the table (it needs more work than just that, though). Sorry.

CORRECTION: Size is “7 and one eighth“, not “7 ?”

[Matt Deckard]

For refference, the hat in my pic on the top has a cavanagh / self Felted edge.

No stitching involved, just the felt folded over itself on the edge and worked together with pressure and steam..

[RWS]

. . . . RWS: I initially started buying with less than a clear sense of my size. If you wear a 7 and one eighth, I may have some for you. . . .

Thanks, D., for your thoughtfulness. I'm in the same position you filled awhile back, though: I've no clear idea of my hat size (but the cardboard measuring strip from one mass mailer gives me 7-3/4). I'll check when I'm next in New Haven -- a small but well-regarded hatter still holds out there.