Bespoke shirtings: New & Lingwood or Turnbull & Asse

[DD MacDonald]

I must say I don't like the "gathered" style T&A use where their sleeve joins the cuff, but I guess on a bespoke garment you could request a pleated sleave instead?

I took a look at my N&L shirts, the sleeve gathers into the cuff in two neat pleats.

DDM

[Cantabrigian]

My understanding is that Emma Willis bespoke shirts are made MTM by Rayner and Sturges. I imagine that dealing with Tom Mahon, who also uses Rayner & Sturges, you could get the same shirts at a keener price with more reliable measurements and service than Emma and her "salesbirds".

I don't know where you would have gotten that from or who started the fad of saying that British bespoke shirts are really just MTM but as Gruto points out, and as far as I know (from speaking with the 'salesbirds') you can have whatever changes made that you want.

My understanding is that Emma Willis bespoke shirts are made MTM by Rayner and Sturges

They are from R&S, but I will not call them MTM. Afterall they make a trial shirt, and they make any adjustments that you find necessary.

I'd agree with Matt that there are better quality shirts and better values than what you find on Jermyn Street + Dege + Budd but I don't think you can really fault them with a general and unsubstantiated 'not real bespoke.'

[doccol91]

I am not sure why T&A gets slagged off in this and other forums. I recently purchased some shirts from them and have mostly good to say about the experience (the only bad being it took more than six months from order to receipt--but this will be explained below).

The fabrics were very nice. The help was courteous without being fawning (I find in London service is either overly solicitous or borderline rude--ala N&L, Oscar Udeschi--who refused to speak with me the entire time I was in his store, although it was only me and him in there).

The best aspect, by far, however, is their knowledge. They know better than I how a shirt is supposed to fit and were able to offer great guidance. The first shirt they made for me, I liked, though I felt it needed some fixes. The salesman, Steven Quinn thought it was unsalvagable and insisted on making another try-on shirt. The next one, and I am nuts for fit and have a great eye for detail, I thought was perfect, save the collar was a little tight, he thought the shoulders needed to be raised, so he had them make another shirt. He was right, the fit was much better. In fact, the fit was better than any shirt I have ever worn.

One added bonus, which really won me over: I had some shirts made by a NYC shirtmaker, which I thought were really off. Very expensive and beautiful Alumo fabrics, but the cut was horrible--way too broad for me. T&A altered them all (about 9 shirts) for free.

Again, there might be firms with more unique fabrics--I have some shirts from emma willis that fit this bill--but for fit and service, I am not sure how it could get better.

[whittaker]

My own experience with T&A is not completely negative. The selection and quality of fabric is unbeatable. My main quibble is with the sales people who, in my experience, do not all have a great eye for detail. With the lengthy time it takes to get them to make and in my case remake my order twice, the process is too protracted.

I also question their manufacturing standards, i.e. I requested shanked buttons, which they were happy to provide but came with too many unwound threads etc. Their quality control should have picked this up.

[Mark Seitelman]

I am not sure why T&A gets slagged off in this and other forums. I recently purchased some shirts from them and have mostly good to say about the experience (the only bad being it took more than six months from order to receipt--but this will be explained below).

The fabrics were very nice. The help was courteous without being fawning (I find in London service is either overly solicitous or borderline rude--ala N&L, Oscar Udeschi--who refused to speak with me the entire time I was in his store, although it was only me and him in there).

The best aspect, by far, however, is their knowledge. They know better than I how a shirt is supposed to fit and were able to offer great guidance. The first shirt they made for me, I liked, though I felt it needed some fixes. The salesman, Steven Quinn thought it was unsalvagable and insisted on making another try-on shirt. The next one, and I am nuts for fit and have a great eye for detail, I thought was perfect, save the collar was a little tight, he thought the shoulders needed to be raised, so he had them make another shirt. He was right, the fit was much better. In fact, the fit was better than any shirt I have ever worn.

One added bonus, which really won me over: I had some shirts made by a NYC shirtmaker, which I thought were really off. Very expensive and beautiful Alumo fabrics, but the cut was horrible--way too broad for me. T&A altered them all (about 9 shirts) for free.

Again, there might be firms with more unique fabrics--I have some shirts from emma willis that fit this bill--but for fit and service, I am not sure how it could get better.

Steven Quinn holds the royal warrant at Turnbull. It was previously held by his father-in-law whose name escapes me. Quinn fits the Prince of Wales.

[doccol91]

Prince of Wales, Steve of Brooklyn (me).

Reminds me of what I joke with my office manager who used to work for the Duchess of York: she really must have pissed off some god to have her career take such a turn.

[udeshi]

doccol91
Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject:
"The help was courteous without being fawning (I find in London service is either overly solicitous or borderline rude--ala N&L, Oscar Udeschi--who refused to speak with me the entire time I was in his store, although it was only me and him in there). "

Fantastic, someone has a name very similar to mine! And in the same business.

This is, what can I say, interesting. I unfortunately don't have the time to log on to every clothing forum. I heard good things about the London Lounge, and have read a few interesting posts. I decided to do a search on our own brand and came up with this.

We try to be as courteous as possible. I used to be on the other end of the stick so to speak, and so am aware of what I like, and what other people may possibly like when shopping for clothes. When we first opened the store, we used to greet every client, and say if there was anything we could help with, they should not hesitate to ask. A few people found this annoying, or retorted with the standard "just looking." So we modifed and just say in a hopefully welcoming tone, "Good morning" or "Good afternoon".

We found that most people were quite happy browsing, and would ask questions if they had any. I grew up in a different service / sales culture. I am not used to the "How are you doing today?" remark. Also most of our clients seem to visibly wince at this. We are not a high pressure sales environment, we do not jump on you when you come in, we are quite the opposite, we don't install flattering mirrors, ours are optically correct. We don't say you look fabulous when the stock jacket does not take in to account your roll forward / drop shoulder etc. We point it out and say if we can correct it or not.

So if somebody says that I refused to speak to them, does this mean that someone spoke to me and I didn't acknowledge their existence, or what they said? Or does it mean that I don't make small talk to everyone. If it is the latter, I am guilty. If it is the former, then that is an interesting business model and way of running a business. If that were true, I would have closed long ago, and wouldn't bother replying to this comment.

People have a certain chemistry with each other, some positive, i.e. sometimes you like somebody, and don't know why, other times you know you are just not going to get along with somebody. I may have sparked this in the poster of the comment. I am glad he has found what he is looking for with Steven Quinn, who if I remember correctly is a good, knowledgable chap.

Oscar "U D E S H I"

- That's what is written on the outside of the shop.

[Concordia]

Welcome to LL, and thanks for that word.

I agree with Doccol that London service can be a little spotty-- one of the strangest pieces or rudeness I've ever encountered was at New & Lingwood nearly 20 years ago, and the behavior at Longmire makes me very reluctant to spend money there.

But I like Mr. Udeshi's approach. If the display is self-explanatory and the help is, well, willing to be helpful, it makes no sense to ask for more. Especially when it's not a simple transaction ("you want fries with that?"), but one with potentially far-reaching effect on the wardrobe and pocketbook. A little time to contemplate free of molestation is not a bad thing.

[RWS]

Totally agree with Concordia. Keep up the good work, Mr. Udeshi. And please stick around.

[udeshi]

Thank you. We are one of the few stores of our ilk who actually display prices in the window, so whatever is in the display window, has a price that is legible - i.e. it doesn't require a telsecope to read.

Some people say you must be desperate for business. For me, I like having an idea of what something roughly costs, before I enter a store, so the heart attacks are kept to a minimum. In some EU countries, France I think, it is actually mandatory to show a price for the items in the window display.

Trying to make things easier.

[Chris Rimby]

Thank you. We are one of the few stores of our ilk who actually display prices in the window, so whatever is in the display window, has a price that is legible - i.e. it doesn't require a telsecope to read.

Some people say you must be desperate for business. For me, I like having an idea of what something roughly costs, before I enter a store, so the heart attacks are kept to a minimum. In some EU countries, France I think, it is actually mandatory to show a price for the items in the window display.

Trying to make things easier.

Have you considered an American presence for your company?

[udeshi]

Yes, we have, and we will, but you need to get one perfect first, and then you can think of number two, otherwise you are just repeating the mistakes of the first store.

Also, where in the states, New York or possibly Los Angeles. And if New York, uptown, midtown, downtown, NoLita etc.

[bry2000]

I have visited Udeshi a few times. Oscar is a friendly guy, who is obviously passionate and knowledgable about his business. I have been treated very well each time I have visited.