What is drape?

[smoothjazzone]

A draped coat cut in the A&S tradition allows one to really express oneself. Literally. The comfort and ease of movement that the drape cut allows is unmatched -- effectively removing any conciousness to a large extent of what one is wearing. The coat has room in the chest and over the shoulder blades which when combined with an appropriately high and shaped armhole allows for almost natural movement. Its less to do about how it looks, and more to do with how it feels. However, a good tailor/cutter will have the ability to create a comfortable coat which also looks good.

The really structured jackets one sees from other makers constrict movement. At their extreme they are like body armour. Its difficult to be either physically or mentally engaging when one is so uncomfortably attired -- even when the garment is "true bespoke."

As said above, once one gets used to the draped cut, its hard to go back.

[Costi]

Is drape appropriate for casual and country clothing and less so for other environments? I doubt it...
I had the pleasure of re-watching "Casablanca" last night and paying more attention to costumes I noticed that all coats except military and police uniforms had clearly visible drape, including the white DB shawl lapel DJ that Humphrey Bogart wears towards the end of the movie. It looked perfectly elegant and adequate in all examples. I am not technically equipped for it, but if anyone had the possibility to post some stills from the movie, they would be quite illustrative of the universal application of the drape concept.
In absence of either pictures or an excellent photographic memory, this is a good pretext to watch again this great classic

[manicturncoat]

I think this is a good example of the drape cut recently executed.

[SouthPender]

The three of us took a picture after the fitting, and perhaps Andre will post it here to give a couple different draped looks in one shot.

It was really nice to have lunch with you, too, Matt, as well as being able to introduce you to Tom. Here's the picture (click on it to get a bigger version):



I'm on the left wearing my first suit from Tom, Tom's in the center, and Matt is on the right wearing his Rubinacci suit, which must have been made of at least 15 oz material. We are both smiling very broadly behind those grey rectangles. My suit is made from 9 oz wool, and the next one will be in a heavier weight (a 13 oz navy chalk stripe in a DB) so the drape isn't as rumpled-looking. The vest is a bit high, but that's no big deal to me. It's still a very nice suit that I will enjoy wearing: the softness and comfort along with the fit of the shoulders and neck are unparalleled in my experience with MTM and RTW, and perhaps my mind's playing tricks on me, but it seems to be molding itself to my body already. I had been wearing that suit all day, from my drive to the airport, my hour-long flight in the morning, a half-hour BART ride, and an hour-long lunch with Matt --- the jacket was removed just for airport security, but otherwise was worn buttoned the whole way.

But the real reason I posted is because I want to talk about Matt's beautiful suit. We were meeting in front of Neiman-Marcus in Union Square, and from a block away, you could tell the suit was already something very special. As you get closer, the suit fairly screams "Custom!", but not in an ostentatious, aggressive way a Borrelli with its in-your-face pickstitching and exaggerated shape might do it. The detailing was interesting: patch pockets, swelled seams, and spalla camicia, but it was the shape and the drape of the suit that really gave it away. It's like it has a complex life of its own with all its small, nuanced undulations in the coat, possessing a kind of quiet exuberance. Several times during lunch I had to apologize to Matt because I found myself mesmerized by the way the shoulder fell, or a shape the sleevehead made, or some other wonderful little detail you may discover only after living with the suit for a while, and catching your reflection accidentally.

I don't mean to make it sound like the suit was wearing Matt, because it wasn't, but the two combined had a presence that's hard to see in a picture: it's really a 3D effect that you have to see in person to appreciate. Who needs a power suit's overtly shaped shoulders and clean chest, when you can get such a more subtle, elegant, but equally present, effect with drape? After seeing the suit, I'm completely spoiled now, and I understand the appeal of drape. Normal suits are nice, but not terribly interesting anymore.

--Andre

Andre, both suits look terrific. I had two questions for you:

1. Your suit by Thomas Mahon looks Neapolitan to my eye, with the sleevehead treatment (although it's possible I have misunderstood that feature). Is this Mr. Mahon's standard treatment, or did you ask for this?

2. Your jacket sleeves seem a little shorter than usual, particularly the right one, exposing somewhat more "linen" than is considered ideal by some. Perhaps it's just the pose you are in that has pulled the sleeve up a little. Or do you prefer your jacket sleeves somewhat shorter than usual to expose close to an inch of shirt cuff?

[iammatt]

Andre, both suits look terrific. I had two questions for you:

1. Your suit by Thomas Mahon looks Neapolitan to my eye, with the sleevehead treatment (although it's possible I have misunderstood that feature). Is this Mr. Mahon's standard treatment, or did you ask for this?

I think that the picture is deceiving you. The sleeveheads are actually quite clean and done beautifully. There is a slight rope or bump, but not much. This is not what somebody would necessarily think of as far as Naples, but some do make roped sleeves there for sure.

2. Your jacket sleeves seem a little shorter than usual, particularly the right one, exposing somewhat more "linen" than is considered ideal by some. Perhaps it's just the pose you are in that has pulled the sleeve up a little. Or do you prefer your jacket sleeves somewhat shorter than usual to expose close to an inch of shirt cuff?

I think more picture than real life, but Andre can answer for himself. They had meen fitting the coat, and he did not have much time to right himself. They looked pretty standard to me.

[SouthPender]

Andre, both suits look terrific. I had two questions for you:

1. Your suit by Thomas Mahon looks Neapolitan to my eye, with the sleevehead treatment (although it's possible I have misunderstood that feature). Is this Mr. Mahon's standard treatment, or did you ask for this?

I think that the picture is deceiving you. The sleeveheads are actually quite clean and done beautifully. There is a slight rope or bump, but not much. This is not what somebody would necessarily think of as far as Naples, but some do make roped sleeves there for sure.

Matt, I'm not referring to the shoulder line (roped or otherwise at the end), but rather the folds in the sleeve at the top where it enters the armhole. Look particularly at the right sleeve. Those folds running down the upper sleeve from the shoulder suggested to me the shirred or gathered sleeveheads seen on some Neapolitan jackets.

[iammatt]

Yes, I thought that you might be. I can only tell you that in person what stood out to me was how clean the shoulders were and that they had no fluting at all. I can see what you are talking about in the picture, but can only surmise that it is a function of the picture because in real life it did not exist to my eye.

[Andre Yew]

1. Your suit by Thomas Mahon looks Neapolitan to my eye, with the sleevehead treatment (although it's possible I have misunderstood that feature). Is this Mr. Mahon's standard treatment, or did you ask for this?

I didn't specify the kind of sleevehead treatment I wanted so I assume it's his standard treatment, and, as Matt noted, it's actually pretty clean, but the camera and its flash found a moment when it looks a bit rumpled. I think if I had a heavier cloth, it would have cleaned up a bit in that picture.

2. Your jacket sleeves seem a little shorter than usual, particularly the right one, exposing somewhat more "linen" than is considered ideal by some. Perhaps it's just the pose you are in that has pulled the sleeve up a little. Or do you prefer your jacket sleeves somewhat shorter than usual to expose close to an inch of shirt cuff?

The shirt sleeves are falling past my skinny wrists a bit because the cuffs are a bit loose, and the sleeves are a bit blousy to help keep linen visible when my arms are bent. This was my Anto test shirt, and because I was impatient to get it, I decided not to have them fix the cuff diameter (which has been reduced by 0.25 inches on the rest of the order).

Thanks for the compliments. Tom did a good job with only one fitting.

--Andre

[erasmus]

Uppercase, thanks for the wonderful, dual paean to both drape and lean silhouettes. Probably one of the best descriptions of the psychology of wearing drape I've read anywhere.

I find it interesting to note the various reactions I've seen to drape ranging from total devotion to dismissal. What I find most instructive are the perspectives of those who appreciate both drape and a leaner and/or more structured look. It is this hybrid view that I tend to agree with most, as I see the inherent virtues of both as well as their specific situational advantages.

[uppercase]

I agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Alden's comments about comfort. I like my jackets to feel, but not look, like sweaters. Fred Astaire famously used to test his A&S commisions by pirouetting around 32 Savile Row and stopping in improbable poses to see if clothes were laying correctly on his body. I have my own, less poetic test. First is the "cab test". Can I raise to extend my arm to hail a cab easily? Does the collar lift from the neck when I do? Do I feel the coat pull across the back? Second is the "steak test." I sit down and mimick the action of eating: cutting, reaching for a glass, etc. Same principle applies. This also basically covers normal, everyday activlty such as writing and using the phone. Finally, the car test. Can I manipulate the wheel easily? Shift, etc.? I have found that a lot of coats that look good when you are standing, arms down, pass few or none of these tests. Coats with a little drape do.

I think that this is great practical advice quoted from Manton above and should really be revisited and considered when having a suit made.

I have coats that look OK when standing in front of a mirror but for sitting, driving, eating - forget it. I'm in a bind.

Also considerations like putting on weight from holidays, working out, aging, etc. are going to limit the longevity of those tight fittings coats.

Luxury is comfort.

[uppercase]

Is this photo, borrowed with thanks from Ivan Kipling from SF , closer to what the original London Drape, as tailored by Scholte, looked like?

Is it correct to say that the original London Drape is considerably more 'drapy' than what AS tailors today?

How would an original Scholte differ from todays AS?

[Marabunta]

Cristobal Balenciaga obsessed during his entire adult life, over drape, and flou. He could not stand to see a garment lie flat against the wearer.