Marcella shirt

[HappyStroller]

What exactly is a Marcella shirt? Are its collar and cuffs of pique material? Can its collar and cuffs be soft? Can the cuffs be French cuffs? Should its collar be wing or turn down? Removeable?
Should its bib, collar and cuffs be starched stiff and ironed to a shine?

[HappyStroller]

It's so sad, no one has yet answered my query. I remain knowledge challenged by the definition of a Marcella shirt.

I tried to remedy my knowledge deficiency by bidding for the following item:-

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :IT&ih=001

but retreated when I saw the amount necessary to challenge the winning bid of GBP 36 for a half century old Marcella shirt not my size.

Any gentleman willing to enlighten this countryside-equivalent chap, please?

[andrei67]

I am not the most knowledgeable in the subject, but judging by my Rayner & Sturgess one - it has collar, cuffs and front bib in stiff pique weave, wheras all the other areas are plain voile

[HappyStroller]

Thanks, Andrei, for your very helpful reply, which should be good enough for giving me an idea of what a Marcella shirt should be, at the very least.

I shall assume the bib panel, collar (which I am surprised to learn is also made of pique) and cuffs are not removable, unless otherwise advised. And also assume the collar is a wing collar.

Are the collar, cuffs and front bib stiff by nature of the materials used, and without the need for starching and ironing to achieve stiffness?

[DD MacDonald]

[quote="HappyStroller"] And also assume the collar is a wing collar.
[quote]

Stroller, the "marcella" shirt that I have from Hackett has a regular shirt collar made from a pique material. A wing-collared shirt with a pique bib and single (not folded cuff closed by a cufflink) cuff sounds like a shirt for wear with a tail coat. I believe that it is proper to wear with a dinner jacket as well, though others may disabuse us of this supposition. However, I do not think that this wing-collared shirt is what is refered to as a a "marcella shirt".

DDM

[HappyStroller]

Thank you, DD, for bringing up this point about a Marcella shirt having a normal (turn down/point) collar. Would your Hackett Marcella shirt happen to have French cuffs?

It was when Andrei mentioned that his shirt had a stiff collar when I jumped to the conclusion that it was a wing collar.

Now that I can sort of figure it out, a Marcella shirt is an alternative to the normal full dress shirt (which is the wing-collared shirt with a pique bib and single (not folded cuff closed by a cufflink) cuff; collar, bib and cuffs all starched stiff and ironed to a shine). Instead of being stiff in the collar, bid and cuffs, its collar, bid and cuffs are soft so that the Marcella shirt is easier and more comfortable to wear.

I hope Andrei can confirm that the collar, bib and cuffs, though all three are of pique material, of his Rayner & Sturgess Marcella shirt are not stiff and that the cuffs are French cuffs.

If any gentleman in the know is of some other opinion, kindly correct my latest self-arrived at definition of a Marcella shirt, please.

[andrei67]

Sorry for misleading you, by stiff I just meant pique material being denser than the plain body of the shirt, not the stiff collar. Collar is down semi-spread, cuffs are double.
Overall I chose Marcela shirt over the pleated-front beacuse of its "cleaner" look, more proper to my taste, though its only my opinion.

[HappyStroller]

Not at all, Andrei. Thank you very much for kindly bothering to confirm the exact kind of material and cut of your Marcella shirt. Your bothering to post replies to my query has helped me to arrive at a good picture of what a Marcella shirt is. And it sounds quite a most appropriate choice nowadays to use a Marcella shirt with the Dinner Jacket. I suspect the other dinners who are using pleated shirts would be rather impressed with your wiser choice.

To tell the truth, I should have done a bit more homework myself before asking my question about what Marcella shirts are. Though belated, I did a little search. Two brands had turn down collars, one had a wing collar, just like the mid-20th Century one that I first mentioned. I suspect having a wing collar on a Marcella shirt is similar to having a notch lapel on a Dinner Jacket, but this is only my rather unqualified opinion, for I have not had the experience of wearing Tuxedo yet, or attending a function where there are (enough) gentlemen who know how to dress properly in Black Tie.

[manton]

Here is what I have always understood a Marcella shirt to be:

It is a semi-formal evening shirt, thus wearable for black tie only. It is a "middle ground" between the wing collar shirt (which is correct with the SB peak DJ) and the pleated front shirt (which is correct with any DJ). The Marcella shirt has a turndown collar made of pique (typically the diamond weave pique). It also has a front bib and double cuffs made of pique. All of the above are attached. The body and sleeves are white voile. The front takes two or three studs. There is no placket.

I like this with a DB DJ, and in fact that is how I made my favorite formal shirt.

[erasmus]

Manton, by turndown, do you mean exclusively point collar? Or can Marcella shirts also take semi-spread or spread collars?

[manton]

I prefer a medium spread myself. The ones I've seen RTW in London are also medium spread. Point seems too informal to me, though Brooks does use the point for some of its pleated front evening shirts.

[Concordia]

Here is what I have always understood a Marcella shirt to be:

...It also has a front bib and double cuffs made of pique. All of the above are attached. The body and sleeves are white voile. The front takes two or three studs. There is no placket.

Dege will make marcella shirts with or without a placket. Bobby's term for those is "black tie front" and "white tie front," respectively. Couldn't venture an opinion as to whether there is some atrocity being committed here.

[manton]

I didn't think it was a matter of correctness so much as that the thickness of the cloth won't allow a placket. That many layers of pique would be tremendously thick. My own shirt has no placket, and even then the overlap is quite thick.

Years ago, I admired a set of studs and links at Flusser's old shop. They were gold (or at least plated) and sort of etched in a very subdued pattern. But they were too expensive, and I passed. Then, on a subsequent trip to London, I spotted very similar studs at New & Lingwood, only they were amazingly cheap. -- like 10 pounds or so. Obviously no gold in them whatsoever, but they looked nice, so I bought them.

I used them without incident for a long time. Then I ordered my Marcella evening shirt. The first time I tried to wear it, I simply could not get the studs through both layers. The cloth was too thick; it was impossible. WIth time running out, and having no other set of studs at hand, I wondered what the hell I was going to do. Suddenly (I still have no idea how) I noticed that the tops of the studs screwed out of the base. They were clearly made for thick shirts. You take the top (showing) part off, put the base through both sides, and then screw the top into the base. Viola! Shirt closed. Lucky me.

Anyway, I don't think even these studs would work if the Marcella shirt had a placket.

[HappyStroller]

How about those fly-type plackets which conceal the buttons, Manton?

If those work, would the shirt be for Black Tie only, or would it be suitable for White Tie, too?

[HappyStroller]

While ordering a Marcella shirt made the other day, it suddenly occured to me to wonder why the Marcella shirt, for all its softness and comfort, bothers to require the use of studs.

Are there formal evening shirts which do not require studs?