Which one of these two gents looks most comfortable, at ease and elegant?
kAVpylmsT+KxjK83lwVoJA_mini_26d2 by The London Lounge, on FlickrNatural shoulder versus ...
Gentlemen,
Which one of these two gents looks most comfortable, at ease and elegant?
kAVpylmsT+KxjK83lwVoJA_mini_26d2 by The London Lounge, on Flickr
Which one of these two gents looks most comfortable, at ease and elegant?
kAVpylmsT+KxjK83lwVoJA_mini_26d2 by The London Lounge, on FlickrI think the guy on the left has his armholes cut too large, letting the jacket ride up in the back and making the shoulders puff out.
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Guest
hedge my bets a little and say that while seated, the suit on the right looks more comfortable and better all round, however once the two stand up i would suspect elegance would favor the more structured suit on the left.
That can't act, can't sing, can dance..a little, gentleman on the right
Nice opportunity for a side-by-side comparison of degrees of shoulder padding.
I think that a successful garment should fit correctly as the wearer "lives" in it. This means it should look good and natural under all circumstances, not only while standing in front of a mirror in the fitting room, but also while sitting, working in front of a desk, dining, etc. Very important fact to keep in mind during fittings.
The shoulder pads of the gentleman on the left, while they may resemble some sort of a human shoulder in a standing position, become odd and unnatural in other positions. In a sitting position with the arms forward, as the picture shows, the excess stuffing material pokes out at the first opportunity, creating lumps that are very artificial looking. This is a problem all too common today, unfortunately. In the picture, the problem is even more evident, as the least fortunate gentleman is sitting right next to a really exemplary garment (and character).
Regards,
Miguel
I think that a successful garment should fit correctly as the wearer "lives" in it. This means it should look good and natural under all circumstances, not only while standing in front of a mirror in the fitting room, but also while sitting, working in front of a desk, dining, etc. Very important fact to keep in mind during fittings.
The shoulder pads of the gentleman on the left, while they may resemble some sort of a human shoulder in a standing position, become odd and unnatural in other positions. In a sitting position with the arms forward, as the picture shows, the excess stuffing material pokes out at the first opportunity, creating lumps that are very artificial looking. This is a problem all too common today, unfortunately. In the picture, the problem is even more evident, as the least fortunate gentleman is sitting right next to a really exemplary garment (and character).
Regards,
Miguel No photo finish in this horse race, Astaire by 2 laps.
The photo is particularly instructive. The gent on the left might be an NFL star who forgot to remove his pads after a big match in his excitement to meet Mr. Astaire. He seems encased in his suit like some forlorn Dumas hero "The Man in the Iron Suit." His suit has a life of its own. The wearer must adapt himself to the decisions the suit makes and accept compromise. In the picture we clearly see that the coat has decided one course of action and the wearer has chosen another. They are in conflict and the result is not aesthetically pleasing. Nor must it be very comfortable to wear.
Quite the contrary state can be noted in Mr. Astaire's disposition. His coat is like a second skin, a shadow that moves in perfect harmony with him. Doesn't he look like he could curl up on the sofa, tip the hat over his eyes and get a good dose of shuteye? He looks this way because his clothes are in perfect harmony with his body. As such they reveal the natural elegance and grace that the actor possessed so abundantly.
These are the same characteristics we see in films of Astaire dancing, but they are even equally evident in this photograph. Remember both men are wearing what must be a very heavy fabric by today's standards. And yet Astaire's tailor has rendered a very soft and elegant garment out of the heavy cloth. It doesn't look nearly as heavy as it is. The ripples and pleats we see in Astaire's coat are pleasing to the eye. They add character and dimension. The less fortunate neighbor's coat looks like it is made from very heavy, rigid cloth. Great waves of material cascade about and splash in gaudy torrents about the concrete quay.
Study this photo carefully, memorize its lesson and take it to your tailor next time.
Cheers
The photo is particularly instructive. The gent on the left might be an NFL star who forgot to remove his pads after a big match in his excitement to meet Mr. Astaire. He seems encased in his suit like some forlorn Dumas hero "The Man in the Iron Suit." His suit has a life of its own. The wearer must adapt himself to the decisions the suit makes and accept compromise. In the picture we clearly see that the coat has decided one course of action and the wearer has chosen another. They are in conflict and the result is not aesthetically pleasing. Nor must it be very comfortable to wear.
Quite the contrary state can be noted in Mr. Astaire's disposition. His coat is like a second skin, a shadow that moves in perfect harmony with him. Doesn't he look like he could curl up on the sofa, tip the hat over his eyes and get a good dose of shuteye? He looks this way because his clothes are in perfect harmony with his body. As such they reveal the natural elegance and grace that the actor possessed so abundantly.
These are the same characteristics we see in films of Astaire dancing, but they are even equally evident in this photograph. Remember both men are wearing what must be a very heavy fabric by today's standards. And yet Astaire's tailor has rendered a very soft and elegant garment out of the heavy cloth. It doesn't look nearly as heavy as it is. The ripples and pleats we see in Astaire's coat are pleasing to the eye. They add character and dimension. The less fortunate neighbor's coat looks like it is made from very heavy, rigid cloth. Great waves of material cascade about and splash in gaudy torrents about the concrete quay.
Study this photo carefully, memorize its lesson and take it to your tailor next time.
Cheers
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Lookingtoimprove
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What would have been the result if the gentleman on the right had had his jacket protrude less at the shoulders (resulting in a narrower jacket at the shoulders)? I wonder what the effect might be of shoulder pads that don't seem to extend as far from the body as those in evidence on the man in the right.
Mark
Mark
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Guest
Mark,
I do not think the problem is in the shoulders protruding far from the body; indeed I think that a couple of cm out of the shoulders is good, giving you more room. The problem is in the armhole being too big; I mean, the space under the armpit. If you have too much space the coat will float every time you will raise your arms; if it is tight, the coat will rest in place still when you make a tumble.
I do not think the problem is in the shoulders protruding far from the body; indeed I think that a couple of cm out of the shoulders is good, giving you more room. The problem is in the armhole being too big; I mean, the space under the armpit. If you have too much space the coat will float every time you will raise your arms; if it is tight, the coat will rest in place still when you make a tumble.
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Lookingtoimprove
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Grazie Giona,
I was wondering whether in the instance portrayed the jackets' shoulders weren't sticking out too far. Or is this visual effect made worse due to the too large armholes: where the armholes don't prevent the jacket from moving up and therefore the shoulder(pads) move up also, creating the outward bulging at the shoulders? Or am I getting cause and effect totally wrong here?
Another question if I may. Are the too large cut armholes also the cause of the fact that the sleeves seem to 'ride up' on the arms of the man on the left in the picture?
Mark.
I was wondering whether in the instance portrayed the jackets' shoulders weren't sticking out too far. Or is this visual effect made worse due to the too large armholes: where the armholes don't prevent the jacket from moving up and therefore the shoulder(pads) move up also, creating the outward bulging at the shoulders? Or am I getting cause and effect totally wrong here?
Another question if I may. Are the too large cut armholes also the cause of the fact that the sleeves seem to 'ride up' on the arms of the man on the left in the picture?
Mark.
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Guest
Excellent point Mark; indeed too large cut armholes also cause the fact that sleeves ride up on the arms; when you have tight armholes, sleeves stand more correctly on the wrist. For example the first coat I had from my tailor has too large armholes, the last ones were corrected, and still I notice this difference, even if the sleeve has exactly the same length.
And you are right: being the armoholes too large, the padding too much, the coat seems to have longer shoulder; it is an effect, that is reduced with same length shoulders and tighter armoholes. Anyway, there is also too much padding.
Giona.
And you are right: being the armoholes too large, the padding too much, the coat seems to have longer shoulder; it is an effect, that is reduced with same length shoulders and tighter armoholes. Anyway, there is also too much padding.
Giona.
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tteplitzmd
Regarding armhole size and placement, how much if any leeway does the tailor have to change the armhole size and height? I have not gotten straight answers. Obviously you can't make things smaller from a cuttng standpointt, but I am curious about the technical limitations or options if: for example, you find the armhole too high, or too low after a fitting.
I would suggest, for anyone so inclined, to obtain Fred Astaire's recording with the Jazz at the Philharmonic All Stars (prod. by Norman Granz issued on Mercury, verve, and DRG records): outstanding vocals by Astaire with Oscar Peterson, Barney Kessel, et al, and a rare Astaire on piano piece. The singing is superb and he would appear to suffer from no armhole contraints judging from the ease and elegance of his singing the jazz standards.
Terry Teplitz
I would suggest, for anyone so inclined, to obtain Fred Astaire's recording with the Jazz at the Philharmonic All Stars (prod. by Norman Granz issued on Mercury, verve, and DRG records): outstanding vocals by Astaire with Oscar Peterson, Barney Kessel, et al, and a rare Astaire on piano piece. The singing is superb and he would appear to suffer from no armhole contraints judging from the ease and elegance of his singing the jazz standards.
Terry Teplitz
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Leonard Logsdail
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[quote="tteplitzmd"]Regarding armhole size and placement, how much if any leeway does the tailor have to change the armhole size and height? I have not gotten straight answers. Obviously you can't make things smaller from a cuttng standpointt, but I am curious about the technical limitations or options if: for example, you find the armhole too high, or too low after a fitting.
It's not as easy as some might think to alter the depth of an arm hole. You can deepen one, a little, but always at the expense of size. As the bottom of the scye is oval, in order to deepen it you have to make a line that will take away from the front and back of the scye, thereby making the coat tighter.
The only way you can reduce the depth of a scye is by removing the sleeves and taking some hieght away from both the front and back shoulders. A dangerous operation if not undertaken by a professional. This will raise, not only the scye, but the pockets and alter the length of the coat.
It's not as easy as some might think to alter the depth of an arm hole. You can deepen one, a little, but always at the expense of size. As the bottom of the scye is oval, in order to deepen it you have to make a line that will take away from the front and back of the scye, thereby making the coat tighter.
The only way you can reduce the depth of a scye is by removing the sleeves and taking some hieght away from both the front and back shoulders. A dangerous operation if not undertaken by a professional. This will raise, not only the scye, but the pockets and alter the length of the coat.
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tteplitzmd
Thank you Leonard. Am I correct then that the best course is to get it riight before the first fitting?
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