Coat Structure and Longevity

[Mark Seitelman]

Does the underlying coat structure play a factor in longevity?

You should recall that there was a recent discussion on the longevity of bespoke. In the many discussions both here and elsewhere the conventional wisdom has been that the cloth selected will determine longevity. The consensus is that cloth by Lesser or Smiths will yield a more durable suit.

We know of people who have bespoke clothes for years and years, and they merely patch or re-line their clothes. Two gentlemen that fit this category wear Davies. However, I was wondering if people wearing Kiton or a Neopolitan suit will be wearing their suits for 10 years plus?

As a generality, the English coat has a firmer canvas and structure than the American and Italian coat. It seems that my Davies suits have more structure than my Oxxfords and Martin Greenfields. It appears that the preference in the general marketplace of both RTW and custom America has become "soft." I believe that this explains the popularity of the Italians in the luxury marketplace, especially Kiton and Borrelli.

Does a firmer structure coupled with proper sewing and proper cloth add to longevity? In other words would a softer coat with less structure have a shorter life? Would the soft coat tend to lose its shape as against its firmer cousin?

Thanks.

[iammatt]

Mark-

While I understand your line of reasoning, I recently had the opportunity to take for a spin a dinner jacket made by Rubinacci in 1933. I do not know how much it was worn, but the condition and shaping could not have been better.

In fact, you could also argue the opposite: something rigid tends to break over time, while something supple tends not to. I think that is the reason that buildings in my city are now buit on rollers .

My guess is that quality will show in the long run. A Davies suit will last for many, many years, as will your Oxxford or a well made suit from Naples. IMO, it would be no more fair to judge Naples on Borrelli or Kiton than to judge New York on Jones New York.

[Mark Seitelman]

Iammatt, you made some good points.

Then, to quote Mr. Bennett of Davies, is it really all a matter of the right stitch in the right place?

On Styleforum who made your sportscoat? It's lovely.

[manton]

I think cloth matters far more than structure. Most of my stuff is soft, but some is structured. I have not noticed a difference in wear or longevity just based on the internal structire.

[iammatt]

Iammatt, you made some good points.

Then, to quote Mr. Bennett of Davies, is it really all a matter of the right stitch in the right place?

On Styleforum who made your sportscoat? It's lovely.

Thanks. It is Rubinacci.

Speaking of the RIGHT STITCH, I have never seen a coat padded with both horizontal and perpindicular stitches. Did he say why they did that?

[Mark Seitelman]

Iammatt, you made some good points.

Then, to quote Mr. Bennett of Davies, is it really all a matter of the right stitch in the right place?

On Styleforum who made your sportscoat? It's lovely.

Thanks. It is Rubinacci.

Speaking of the RIGHT STITCH, I have never seen a coat padded with both horizontal and perpindicular stitches. Did he say why they did that?

Rubinacci Naples or London?

I never asked Mr. Bennett this question. I'll ask it when I get the chance.

[iammatt]

I selected the fabric in London, but it was made in Naples and I did all of my fittings down there.

[manton]

That's the stitching that holds the pieces of the internal canvas together, not the stitching that attaches it to the lapels. The latter is what people often see and it is always up and down. The canvas is a different story.

This is hard to put into words, but think of it this way. The purpose of the canvas is to give the coat some shape. The shape you want in the chest differs from the shape you want in the shoulder. Think of a bottle. Stand it up. That side to side curve is what you want in the chest. Now tip the bottle on its side. An up-down curve is what you want in the shoulder. The direction of the stitches is what produces those curves.

[iammatt]

That's the stitching that holds the pieces of the internal canvas together, not the stitching that attaches it to the lapels. The latter is what people often see and it is always up and down. The canvas is a different story.

This is hard to put into words, but think of it this way. The purpose of the canvas is to give the coat some shape. The shape you want in the chest differs from the shape you want in the shoulder. Think of a bottle. Stand it up. That side to side curve is what you want in the chest. Now tip the bottle on its side. An up-down curve is what you want in the shoulder. The direction of the stitches is what produces those curves.

That makes sense. There is not a lot of reason to see the chest padding unless you are looking for it.

I also agree with fabric being the key to longevity. The dinner jacket that I mention was made of a fabric substantially heavier than flannels that we wear today.

[Concordia]

It might be that for comfort, not just longevity, that a softer canvas can justify a heavier weight cloth. I won't be doing any direct A-B comparisons, but there is a tailor in Cambridge who uses very light Italian-style canvases-- very different from London taste. As I get to know his work, my bias will be to go one notch up in weight.