Odd waistcoat: buff, suede?

[couch]

As an alternate waistcoat to wear with a charcoal blue flannel suit with faint chalk windowpane, and with the LL Cooper tweed (picking up the cream thread) and probably others, I've been pondering somethiing in buff (partly inspired by the Eden-esque illustration that prompted Alden's recent cloth proposal). For textural contrast with the wool I'm thinking linen would be nice for spring, and a suede for fall. I inquired of Philip Parker at Poole whether they could tailor suede for this and after some thought he concluded they probably no longer had anyone who could do it well. Of course the linen, suiting flannel, or doeskin would be no problem,

What do members think of the buff odd waistcoat (in linen, worsted flannel, or suede in general?) Would a highly textured linen work for fall/winter? Can anyone suggest a tailor who could properly make and fit one in suede? I was thinking goat or pig suede rather than lamb for durability, but am open to ideas.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[dopey]

I admire the look, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable wearing one myself.

[manton]

I'm with dopey. Love it in the abstract; hesitate when it comes to execution. I wear a lot of things that no one in my office will wear, and I don't let that stop me. But an odd vest with a suit still strikes me as a bridge too far. Yet it is a bridge I would like to cross one day.

[Will]

I wear linen odd vests in cream, buff and gray. The texture of the linen is a nice complement to worsteds.

The look is conservative. An odd waistcoat is much less likely to catch someone's eye, in my opinion, than a tweed suit in Manhattan.

[alden]

The odd waistcoat is a under utilized garment that can add a good deal of character to one’s dress. Here are a few points to bear in mind

Prefer heavyweight Irish linen in cream, tan or light gray. (See W. Bill Irish linen)

Prefer SB vests cut as simply as possible.

Be careful with the combinations with all suits, coats etc. to insure that the contrast of colors is not too stark or abrupt. The waistcoat should be present but nuanced. It should not become the center of attention.

New linen waistcoats look absolutely awful, so spend a few nights sleeping in them to give them a satisfactory old worn patina.

As regards leather waistcoats, my immediate reaction is to suggest a wool doeskin instead.

Leather vests are OK if you plan to play Robin Hood, Peter Pan or Conan while wearing them.

[dopey]

I wear linen odd vests in cream, buff and gray. The texture of the linen is a nice complement to worsteds.

The look is conservative. An odd waistcoat is much less likely to catch someone's eye, in my opinion, than a tweed suit in Manhattan.

I'm with dopey. Love it in the abstract; hesitate when it comes to execution. I wear a lot of things that no one in my office will wear, and I don't let that stop me. But an odd vest with a suit still strikes me as a bridge too far. Yet it is a bridge I would like to cross one day.

O.K., Will. Manton’s post made me consider posting this but yours clinched it. Couch’s question raised an issue that I only alluded to in my initial response. When I said I liked the look of a buff waistcoat but wouldn’t wear one myself, I was well aware of the oddity of that statement coming from someone who likes tweed suits, lapeled waistcoats and hats. When manton says that he wears many things to the office that others would not, but a buff waistcoat is a bridge too far, he is acknowledging the same circumstance. Whatever we may say about what is and isn’t proper, the reality is that many of us participating on this site dress in ways that are outside the norm. We have departed from the convention practiced by our peers. In that sense, we have made a conscience choice to be different, even if it is by merely paying attention to how we dress. A buff vest is weird. So is a tweed suit in the city. Perhaps a buff vest is technically correct, but only in an outmoded rulebook of which only a few are aware. Appeals to historic authority do not do much to keep a buff waistcoat under a suit from drawing attention as unusual. To my eye, both a buff vest and tweed suit are beautiful, but why I am comfortable with one and not the other for myself, I cannot say (in my defense, I confine tweed suits to non-work days or traveling Fridays). If you or couch choose to wear one, it is because you think it looks nice (with which I agree) and are comfortable doing so (which I am not). Saying you can wear one because the look is conservative (meaning correct) is misleading. If you are conserving something that has long since passed, you are not conserving - you are effectively introducing a new look. It is a lovely look to choose but it cannot be understood as a conservative choice.

[Will]

I don't believe the odd vest with a suit was ever seen much in the United States, and probably little since the 70's (I watched part of a 70's comedy set in Paris this past weekend where the director of a museum wore a buff vest paired with a charcoal suit very effectively). But I wouldn't characterize it as a look if it blends. The eye passes over it.

A cream vest worn with a suit with cream in the weave or striping is a combination Brummel would have approved.

[manton]

Alden/Will:

What would you recommend or a black and white PoW plaid (the overall effect is on the light side) with a double sky blue overcheck? Pearl gray linen?

[alden]

It’s nice to see so many conservatives in this club.

I can remember the days when all men’s suits had three pieces and they were pretty much worn that way. The exception was in summer, when one piece could be left off, the waistcoat. Today, three piece suits are far less common.

If the definition of “conservative” is following current notions of proper or acceptable dress, then the odd waistcoat is not “conservative”, it is odd.

If one works in an environment where a convention of dress must be strictly adhered to, one may wisely prefer to follow the convention of the day. Today this may mean eschewing the waistcoat and the three piece suit altogether. A young buck moving up the corporate ladder might be advised to avoid the three piece suit until his time has come. For those whose time has come, it seems perfectly natural. Conventions are moving targets. What is conservative for one might be ose for another.

If the definition of “conservative” means adhering to traditional values, then the waistcoat is one of the most conservative of garments. Its history traces back to the primordial soup of elegant dress. It used to be one of those things you didn’t leave home without. BUT, it is only conservative and acceptable if worn elegantly. A sloppily conceived waistcoat worn improperly is garish, Charlie to the nth degree and to be avoided at all costs. If one has the taste to pull it off, then it can be an attractive and practical garment (one to be used sparingly and with caution all the same.)

Prefer the odd waistcoat with more casual day suits or in summer when you are sure to need to remove the coat. With tweed suits or coats, avoid looking like a riding instructor with the ubiquitous red or yellow tattersall, or a hunter with forest green. If you wear it in the evening, make sure not to appear to have poorly chosen a morning suit or appear a Maitre’D.

Manton:

I would think a dove gray linen or flannel vest would work well if the plaid is indeed a light shade. It’s hard to say without seeing the cloth. You might even be daring and try a slightly blue/gray, sky blue or navy blue shade to draw on the blue of the double over check. The easy nature of the PoW or windowpane pattern allows you a good deal of latitude that a chalk or pin would not. The illustration in Etutee’s article of the gent in the windowpane suit is a good example. You can also wear a snappy cardigan with the PoW to great effect.

[manton]

I would prefer a knit vest, a sweater vest, but I find all the ones sold today are a bad shape. I have proposed an LL limited edition sweater vest to remedy the problem. We need one with a deep "V", scooped armholes, a tapered body, and SHORT!

[dopey]

Since this illustration is a personal favorite and the genesis of the original post, let us use it.

Consider this, the white linen vest in particular, worn today. Is it conservative, progressive, reactionary? Is it dandy? Is it fashionable? Is it peahen or peacock? Modest or proud?

Elegant would be correct, but is a diversion for these purposes.

Would you notice the wearer? If so, for his bearing? for his clothes? for his indeterminate self? Would you notice the vest or does it blend into the entire appearance?

[manton]

Consider this, the white linen vest in particular, worn today. Is it conservative, progressive, reactionary? Is it dandy? Is it fashionable? Is it peahen or peacock? Modest or proud?

I would say: reactionary, dandy, peacock, and proud. Not that those are necessarily bad. At a minimum, that is how it would come off to most people.

Would you notice the wearer? If so, for his bearing? for his clothes? for his indeterminate self? Would you notice the vest or does it blend into the entire appearance?

Oh, I would notice, and I bet most others would too. I would notice vest AND wearer. Personally, I would admire his elegance and boldness. Then I would wonder how he is faring with others who, unlike me, may not admire such elegance and boldness.

[manton]

One more thing: if I remember the original caption to that illustration accurately, it said something like "For those wishing to appear less dandified, dispense with the cane, gloves, and vest."

[dopey]

Now for the embarrassing addendum. I just recalled that I do have a pearl colored knit vest of silk and wool. I wore it on more than one occasion last year with a navy suit cut like the one in the Eden illustration and with a muted gray glen plaid with light blue overcheck DB suit.

Next time I will remind myself that I don’t feel comfortable with a light colored odd vest.

[smoothjazzone]

New linen waistcoats look absolutely awful, so spend a few nights sleeping in them to give them a satisfactory old worn patina.

Mr. Alden:

Seems to be sound advice indeed. However, I feel some of us have tested the patience of our significant others on all matters sartorial -- that this may just be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back!!!