DAKS tops trousers

[Rutherford]

Hello to everyone and a big thankyou for allowing me to join your forum.

I'm really hoping someone out there will be able to help me regarding the purchase of "DAKS TOPS" trousers.

I've been trying for several weeks now to buy a pair of trousers with the daks waistband design - i.e. no beltloops and adjustment being made via elasticated material and buttons. I have to say I haven't had very much success.

I have searched Marks & Spencer's website and did spot a nice pinstripe suit that took my eye but when I tried to order the trousers I got a message back saying they were no longer in stock (just my luck). They did have another pair from their "Autograph" range which seemed to fit the bill but when I made enquiries it appeared the buttons located on the side offered no adjustment and were just for show! Therefore, the waist would have to be an exceptionally "good fit" with no provision for a belt being made.

I should put out I'm not really after a suit as such, just the trousers.

I have also had a look at a website run in Thailand called "Prince Henry". I am tempted to go along to one of their "Tours" and be measured up for a pair of trousers with the daks tops design. I would be interested to know whether anyone has had dealings with Prince Henry, if so was it positive??

In short, if anyone could help me on the following points I should be most grateful.

1. Is it possible to purchase a pair of DAKS TOPS ready to wear trousers in the UK (northwest area if possible but I can travel if neccessary)?

2. Alternatively, if it isn't possible to buy them ready to wear can anyone recommend a good tailor for a made to measure pair?

3. Has anyone ordered a made to measure suit/ trousers etc from "Prince Henry", if so what was the service like?

4. Is there any reason why I can't wear this type of trouser on their own i.e. not part of a suit?

5. The two pairs of trousers I nearly bought from M&S were both "pinstripe design". Is there any particular reason why you can't wear pinstripe trousers on there own i.e. not part of a suit. It's just that most pinstripe trousers I've come across do seem to be part of a suit. However, after saying that the Autograph trousers from M&S I mentioned before were pinstripe and didn't appear to be part of a suit.

Many thanks for any help you can offer

Stephen

[couch]

Welcome to the forum, Rutherford.

I'd be more help Stateside, I fear. If you're in New York, LS Mens Clothiers will make you a fine MTM Daks-back trouser with quite a bit of very nice handwork in the interior/waistband construction (all my buttonholes were hand bound, too, though they were less impressive) for about $220. I happened to be wearing a pair when I went to be measured up at Poole and they said, "Right. Daks-back trousers, turnups, pleats . . ." I had to slow them down since I wanted the second pair of trousers on a different model. That suit's still in progress, but clearly Poole can do Daks backs.

I note that Daks Simpson has a shop on Jermyn St. I stopped in, but didn't think to ask if they still make Daks-back trousers. I can't tell from their web site, but it looks dubious. You might contact them or check for stockists in your area to ask.

At least in the States, there was for a long while a widespread belief that this and derivative waistband styles were both dowdy and declassé, largely thanks to a company called Sansabelt that made a *lot* of pants from the '60s thrrough the '70s with stretch waistbands, mostly in inelegant cuts of polyester knits or low-quality wool blends. These became identifed with paunchy duffers. That may explain part of your difficulty in finding this style RTW. I think it's only recently that enough time has elapsed for designers and younger customers to be able to refer to the older Simpsons prototype and its adoption for other than sportswear without being repulsed by the interveneing associations with Sansabelt and the likes of Rodney Dangerfield.

[TVD]

Cording's offers numerous trousers with Daks back when I last looked a few years back. Hackett and Ede & Ravenscroft may be other traditional outfitters to look at.

[Rutherford]

Couch / TVD many thanks for taking the trouble to reply, you have both given me things to think about.

Couch, regarding what you said about Sansabelt and Rodney Dangerfield. I find it a shame how certain companies can ruin what would otherwise be a perfectly good design.

When I think about it I have actually worn daks-backs trousers in the past. A few years back a friend of mine got married in deepest Kent. It was a big afair with over 200 guests; I can still remember having to stand to make my best-man's speech - my knees knocking together with fear as 200 pairs of eyes stared at me. Never again!

Although the speech was nerve-wrecking the suit supplied by my friend was excellent and very comfortable, especially the trousers with the daks waistband.

Couch, you mentioned about the daks website. I tried to access it a while ago but couldn't get on - the screen kept on going blank. I even managed to acquire a phone number for their London shop but when I tried to ring I just heard a continuious tone indicating, to me atleast, that the number had been cut off. I convinced myself that they'd gone out of business, or at least the London shop had?

TVD, I took a look at the Cording's website. I quite like some of their cords and moleskins and i'm tempted to order some. I just can't make up my mind between the two not having worn a pair of moleskins before! I have sent them a message just on the off-chance they may stock a more formal range of trousers with daks waistband.[/quote]

[couch]

Rutherford,

The Daks Simpson site is working for me tonight at:

http://www.daks.com/ or http://www.daks.co.uk/

But it does seem to use Flash technology, so if your web browser doesn't support Flash or have a plug-in for it, it might be flaky or just not work. They claim to have stockists in Carlisle, Kendal, Blackpool, Skipton, Leeds, Manchesterr, Liverpool, Bolton, Harrogate, York, etc.The web site claims the fall/winter collection is inspired by craftspeople on London's South Bank.Their Jermyn St. storefront was operating as of mid-June of this year, when I stopped in.

Head Office telephone is 44 (0) 20 7409 4000

"Contact us" info: DAKS Simpson, 10 Old Bond Street London W1S 4PS, or "Email Webmasterr at: webmaster@london.daks.com"

Not sure any of this will help you get a Daks-back trouser, since it's not at all obvious that they're still making them. But you can give it a go. Good luck!

[Rutherford]

Thanks Couch,

notice you mentioned Liverpool, that's my neck of the woods, smashing! Just trying to think where about the store could be? The city centre seems to be changing everytime I go down there! It will certainly be an easy job to make enquiries for sure.

You are most probably right about my browser, I will have to check up on that.

I have a sneaking suspicion you are correct in saying they've stopped making them. However, I can but try.

[Wakefield]

Hello Rutherford

If you are willing to look at other forms of waistband adjustment (particularly strap and buckle side adjusters) you may find the RTW choice opens up a little more. To my knowledge, Hackett, Kilgour and Mark Stephen Marengo all stock some trousers with this feature and I am sure others may do. These are all in London, by the way. Online, Pakeman, Catto and Carter have a few styles available.

If you are looking at tailor-made (whether MTM or bespoke) then any tailor should be able to accomodate both styles. I work in Manchester but live and have most of my clothes made in Yorkshire so my knowledge of the North West is patchy and does not extend as far as Liverpool.

I have used Leslie Powell in Manchester to make the same type of trousers you are looking for and can recommend them. Nothing fancy but a good MTM service for £100-£125 per pair.

If your budget is higher James Personal Tailor and Nicholas Jones both get good reviews from people I have spoken to. Even higher up the scale you are a shortish ride from Cumbria and Thomas Mahon who advertises bespoke trousers for (I believe) £595 plus VAT on his website. If that price doesn't frighten you off and you don't mind the trip, then there is the whole of Savile Row to choose from.

Good luck and regards

GAH

[Rutherford]

Hi Wakefield,

thanks for the information. The Tailor you mentioned in Manchester - "Leslie Powell" sounds interesting and the price is around what I expected to pay. I was thinking of an upper limit of £200 so £100 - £125 is pretty good in my books.

I don't suppose you have the address/phone number handy do you? Don't worry if you haven't you've been really helpful as it is.

Kind regards

Stephen

[Wakefield]

Hello Stephen

Happy to be able to help.

The address is Kay Street Industrial Estate, Openshaw, Manchester. M11 2DU. Telephone 0800 298 6789 or 0161 231 3231.

They also have a web site at www.lesliepowell.co.uk.

Regards

GAH

[couch]

Stephen,

Here are the two stockists listed for Liverpool on the Daks site. I'd think Wakefield's MTM sources would be much preferable all round, but you could stop in when you're in the area to see what's on offer.

John Lewis Liverpool
Menswear
Basnett Street
Liverpool
L1 1EA
+44 (0) 151 709 7070

Slaters Menswear
Menswear
14 Williamson Street
Liverpool
L1 1EB
+44 (0) 151 707 1600

[Rutherford]

Well that is bloody annoying! I've just spent the last 3/4 hour posting a reply but when I tried to preview. my message disappeared! So this is my second attempt.....

I'm pleased to say that I've just been measured up for my first pair of MTM trousers! It's funny the way things turn out but I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday about MTM suits and he recommended a tailor he knew of in Liverpool. When I rang him up he explained that he'd gone out of the MTM business and now only dealt in wedding hire, however, he recommended a friend of his who was a Saville-row trained tailor.

This morning I made an appointment to see him - "Roy Harwood Gentlemens and Ladies Bespoke Tailor" Old Hall Street, Liverpool . What a really nice guy! He is 72 years old and has been in the business for 50 years! I chose my fabric - black wool (I already own a pair of black trousers but these are rapidly becoming thread-bare) and he measured me up. I have to go back in two to three weeks time for a fitting.

Couch, it's interesting that you mention those two shops as I tried them around two months ago and had no joy. When I rang Slaters they had no idea what I was on about and thought all gents trousers had belt loops/belts. I didn't argue. I actually visited John Lewis Mens Wear. The assistant there was very helpful but unfortunately only had DAKS tops in evening wear.

I wonder if they started stocking DAKS tops since I last visited? It would be interesting to pay another visit when I'm next in Liverpool.

I had another go at accessing the DAKS website but still no luck. I kept on getting a message saying somthing like "The site wants to close down your window" - and it did! I e-mailed the webmaster and await his reply. However, I don't suppose it really matters now that I've actually ordered a pair!

Wakefield, many thanks for digging out the address and phone number. I feel alittle guilty now putting you to the trouble having decided to get them from a tailor in Liverpool. Consequently, there doesn't seem to be that many tailors in Liverpool offering a MTM service. I think I counted about five out the phone book.

Once again many thanks for your help gentlemen. I will let you know how they turned out in a few weeks time. By the way they cost £125 which I am more than happy with.

Stephen

[Wakefield]

Stephen

No problem and no need to feel guilty.

You seem to have found a much better solution - a local tailor with good credentials who you have found by recommendation. Let us know how you get on.

By the way, Slaters is a pile-em-high, sell-em-cheap operation that gears itself to offering low cost clothes for the average man. It is not suprising that the assistant couldn't help you as they tend to be helpful but not very knowledgeable. They stock mostly low to middling quality items but do have some lines by 'good' names such as Daks and Aquasctum. However, you have to do a lot of digging to find anything worthwhile and the branded goods look like end of ranges, unsold stock and so on.

Also, Daks' own products vary greatly in quality and design but all of the ones I have seen in the last few years have had belt loops at the waist.

Regards

GAH

[Cantabrigian]

Sorry for the dumb question -

are these Daks top trouser?



or on a true Daks model is the elastic somehow on the back of the waistband as opposed to on the sides?

[couch]

Cantab: Yes, those are Daks backs.

One of the things I like about them (as opposed to side adjuster buckles) is that while the exposed tab of finish cloth only extends a couple of inches back under the "tunnel," the elastic piece extends the full length and anchors in the back. This spreads the tension more evenly around your body, allowing some "give" with movement or dining, and keeps a neater appearance.

IIRC, Simpsons originated them in a sporting/casual trouser, intended for golf and driving and such, so the flexibility was important. But I think they make a very neat finish under a suit jacket when one is not inclined to braces.

You can see from your picture and my description that they have a lot of parts: in addition to the underlying finished waistband and buttons, there's the long elastic with the finished tabs and buttonholes, and the tunnel of finish cloth with turned ends, and it all has to be assembled in a specific order. Fairly labor-intensive to make, I imagine, which may be another reason they're not so common in RTW these days.

Stephen: Congratulations! I'm sure your solution is far the best. Perhaps if it goes well you'll want to commission some other trousers from Mr. Harwood before he hangs up his shears!

[Cantabrigian]

Thank you, Couch, for that very clear explanation.

Perhaps you have not encountered this yet but how often do you feel the elastic needs to be replaced? Is it something that can be done relatively easily or is it the case that when the elastic gives out the useful life of the pants has come to an end?