Proper Shirt Fit

[Guest]

I'm glad it worked well for you. If you noticed, it also creates a somewhat convex upper edge on the knot (where it touches the collarband), which visually rounds up the V and gives a pleasing balance to the spread collar, besides preventing gaping.
How is the Nicky knot tied?
Costi

[Guest]

Yes, you are right that the upper convex edge of the Pratt knot does seem to help hide that band, even when the design of the shirt collar does not want to assist.

Regarding the Nicky, well I 'm sure that I can't describe it to you.

The knot can be found in "The 85 Ways to Tie a Tie" by Fink and Mao.

The only diffference that I can see between the Pratt and the Nicky is that once the large end has been brought over the Center of the knot, you take the large end Right in the Nicky rather than Left as in the Pratt. Then continue as with the Pratt.



In the terminology of 85 Ways, both the Pratt and Nicky are described as a Five-Move Knot.

The Pratt is: Left - Center - Left - Right - Center - Through.

The Nicky is: L-C-Right-L-C-T.

As to difference in appearence and performance, I don't know yet.

[Guest]

Is it pretty much a rule that shirts have 7 buttons? I often think that an 8th bottom button would help keep the front tucked in better.

Is it part of the signature of a well made shirt that the bottom buttonhole is cut horizontally?

What is the desired length of shirt tails? When is it too much, when too little? What is a good rule of thumb?

What are members' views on tie space? Is it necessary, or should collars be designed without tie space as some traditionalists aver?

I find shirt pockets useful. Must I absolutely avoid shirts pockets on a dress shirt?

Is a monogram properly placed on the shirt pocket, or below the shirt pocket?

High end pearly buttons are too thick and small for me to comfortably handle. Are there options for a wider, thinner, yet top end pearl button? Can corozzo be used for shirt buttons ?

When sitting down, the shirt placket (?) tends to pull and occassionally a touch of flesh peeks out. When standing, the shirt placket hangs straight , with no pulling. But sitting down is another story. How should a shirt front drape properly when sitting down? Should a shirt be measured by a good shirtmaker to consider the appearance of the shirt when sitting down, as well as standing up?

If one wants to design a new collar heighth (i.e., make new collars higher than normal), is that going to unavoidably throw off the balance and proportion of one's coats? And if so, is it best to abandon the idea of a higher collar than normal?

Sorry for all the questions but appreciate your advice.

TIA

[Guest]

Is it pretty much a rule that shirts have 7 buttons? I often think that an 8th bottom button would help keep the front tucked in better.

Not really, as far as buttons are concerned quality can be read from the material they are made of, the way they are attached to the shirt and whether or not the buttonholes are handstiched. Some also appreciate that the entire length of the shirt is used for evenly spaced buttons.

Is it part of the signature of a well made shirt that the bottom buttonhole is cut horizontally?

Not really, the function of this horizontally cut button hole is to allow movement around the hips.

What is the desired length of shirt tails? When is it too much, when too little? What is a good rule of thumb?

In my personal opinion: the tails are too short if any normal movement has the wearer tucking the shirt in. A shirt is too long if there is more fabric than needed to avoid the above. A handmade gusset is also a nice touch.

I find shirt pockets useful. Must I absolutely avoid shirts pockets on a dress shirt?

That is a matter of personal opinon. Some argue that the practical use of a shirt (for a pen e.g.) should dictate the choice. Personally, I like the clean look of a shirt without a pocket and I choose to keep my pen in a jacket or in a portfolio.

Is a monogram properly placed on the shirt pocket, or below the shirt pocket?

A matter of personal choice, mostly I see it placed below the shirt pocket. Personally I do not use monograms. I would say it is a personal pleasure and as such should not be visible.

High end pearly buttons are too thick and small for me to comfortably handle. Are there options for a wider, thinner, yet top end pearl button? Can corozzo be used for shirt buttons ?

I have seen pearl buttons in either 16mm or 18mm (front). Personally I think 18mm is too large for the front, but it could be use on the cuffs. Do know that handmade buttonholes need to be 'worn in' for them to be used with ease.

When sitting down, the shirt placket (?) tends to pull and occassionally a touch of flesh peeks out. When standing, the shirt placket hangs straight , with no pulling. But sitting down is another story. How should a shirt front drape properly when sitting down? Should a shirt be measured by a good shirtmaker to consider the appearance of the shirt when sitting down, as well as standing up?

You should avoid any folds whether sitting down or standing up. Personally I take that into account when a shirt is measured, to a certain limit ofcourse. That means that I would go through postures and see how the shirt 'behaves'. A bit comical to see, but to me essential for the fit.

If one wants to design a new collar heighth (i.e., make new collars higher than normal), is that going to unavoidably throw off the balance and proportion of one's coats? And if so, is it best to abandon the idea of a higher collar than normal?

I have tried both and find that as little as half a centimeter can throw of the balance entirely. You should notice that I adhere a more classic style. It does depend on the build of a person too.

Kind regards,
Don

[Guest]

As bespoke shirt prices approach $500 or more, having a shirt made is no longer a casual decision and getting fitted properly for a shirt is as important now as a suit.

Quality, workmanship, fit standards and styles are all over the place among the well known bespoke makers.

Shirts are really a complicated sartorial speciality. Perhaps more so than suits and coats given endless variety of decisions which need to be made to have a bespoke shirt made up.

It's got to fit just so. It sits right next to your skin. It's got to be comfortable. Measurements can't be fudged. No paddng or canvass to smooth out our rough edges or hide imprecise tailoring. Which of 50 collar styles to choose.

Not so easy to get a good shirt made at all.

And now, with each attempt at getting a beautiful shirt approaching $500, it's become expensive, making it even more imperative to find the right shirtmaker with the right style and fit quickly. As well as to know what feels comfortable and looks good on ourselves without alot of costly trail and error expermentation.

[Guest]

It's possible to get a well fitting, well made shirt for much less than $500. What's not possible is to get A) handwork and B) perfect fit and balance. That costs a lot more.

[Guest]

Shirts are even topping $500 now.

I was just at Borelli, looked at their book without reference to price, found a nice cloth and asked how much.

$650 for a MTM.

And this was not a super romeo 200. And this was MTM!

Kabbaz, David Gale, Siniscalchi, Battistoni. They're all approaching that ceiling if not exceeded.

And all machine made, mind you.

[Guest]

Siniscalchi and Battistoni's prices are not up with Borrelli's. Siniscalchi costs 350 Euro for 170s. Battistoni is 300 Euro +/- 30.
Siniscalchi gives the client a lot for 350 Euro. Spare set of cuffs and fabric for a replacement collar, handsewn buttonholes, monogram, hand-felled sleeve-shoulder seam, buttons attached by hand with a shank.

[Guest]

I have not heard too much about Siniscalchi or Battistoni other than that they are for the Milan and Roman plutocrats.

They are both north of $400 apparently.

Any direct experience with their bespoke product?

BTW, what's Charvet bespoke cost these days, say 170s?

[Guest]

Assumptions based on hearsay(shirtmakers for the plutocrats, with stratospheric prices and large minimums) are one thing. 350 Euro for a bespoke shirt with all the little touches is reasonable. Moreover, Siniscalchi does not impose a minimum. I'm quite satisfied by my experience with Siniscalchi. Very good fit.
Battistoni costs a bit less, about 300 Euro, but I don't know if this price includes a handsewn monogram and spare parts - for those who desire these things.
Charvet cotton-based shirts ranged from 330 to 590 Euro last year.
Finollo is accurately reputed to be for plutocrats. 570 Euro per and a minimum of 3 is a serious investment.
The Parisian firms - Arnys(550 Euro, min 3) Dunhill(500-550 Euro), Hermes(480 Euro+) and Lanvin(539 Euro) - are also for plutocrats.
With Ascot Chang, add the handsewn parts and the price jumps by $150, and every order must be for at least four shirts.

[Guest]

Ouch!

I had no idea the Parisian makers charge so much.