Savile Row comparison

[cooper]

Dear Members:

I'm preparing to buy my first bespoke suit, but as a neophyte am somewhat confused as to the general differences between the various Savile Row (or other) tailors' styles. There have been a number of discussions on this site that help me to a certain degree, but nothing I can find provides a straight up comparison of styles. I've considered Dege & Skinner, Thomas Mahon, A&S and several other candidates so far, but would certainly be open to other suggestions. I am 5'9", 160 lbs with athetic build, and more than likely would prefer a trimmer, fitted, less sacklike construction or silhouette, but still a bit soft and quite comfortable. Assuming that I have not confused the issue too much, I would appreciate your kind suggestions.

[manton]

For slim and soft, Mahon is the best bet of those you mentioned.

[TVD]

Dear cooper

If you have the time, you should go and chat to the cutters at the Savile Row tailors you are considering. Selecting a tailor should be taken very seriously, because hopefully you deal with him for the rest of your life. While cutting skills and craftsmanship are required, so are style and personal chemistry.

Ask them to show you some of the suits currently being worked on, enquire about how they would advise to cut your suit and what their preferences are, and then select whoever suits you best.

[encooper]

cooper:

I am known on the various fora as "encooper", an e-world play on my branch of the American Army service and the name of my beloved Weimaraner. I am also a known Dege & Skinner customer.

I post this postsuch, to show that you and I are not the same person. Based on your description of what you are looking for, you should obviously seriously consider Dege because it looks like you are looking for the Robert Dailey/Degesilhouettte

[manton]

Based on your description of what you are looking for, you should obviously seriously consider Dege because it looks like you are looking for the Robert Dailey/Degesilhouettte

Yeah, but the guy asked for soft. Dege is not soft. Lean, yes, but not soft.

[TVD]

Sometimes only experience helps: go and ask the tailors to show you a customer's coat waiting for collection. Most should be able to find one approximately your size that lets you understand how soft/stiff their constructions is.

I am a Poole customer. They are reputedly somewhere in between the extremes, and yet I have never found their coats stiff. Structured yes, stiff never. I think that Savile Row should have a very clean look, and that is exactly what I get.

I do not have any Italian coats, but from what I have see these can be much less structured than Savile Row. Than they also will look it.

Again, I encourage you to visist as many places as possible and see what they have on offer. You have to see and feel it to understand the difference properly, and assess how it will work with your body.

[Mark Seitelman]

If you have the ability to visit the Row, then you should try to schedule some appointments and visit the tailors in their premises to get an idea of their work.

I think that with the exception of the two extremes, Anderson & Sheppard and Huntsman, most tailors fall into the middle ground. All of the places that you have mentioned have excellent reputations, and you will not go wrong with any of them.

The first and foremost factor is which tailor will make you look your best. A visit to the tailors should help answer this question. Sometimes it's all of matter of which tailor you "click" with.

I hope that I won't confuse you, but I would recommend that Davies & Son be added to the list. They are one of the best kept secrets of Savile Row. If you visit say hello to Alan Bennett or Andrew Musson.

[Leonard Logsdail]

Malcom Plews at Welsh & Jeffries is probably one of the most talented cutters in Savile Row. But it really depends on the sort of suit you are looking for.

The information you receive in these forums are usually all tinged with personal preferences to the style of suit cut at any particular house. you need to do some leg work and go and visit after collating a short list. And it's not only style you have to take into account. you have to realize that you will be spending time and money with the cutter of choice. make sure you like the man as it can spoil what should be an enjoyable experience if you find you do not click.

Leonard

[Mark Seitelman]

For a bit of history, both Alan Bennett and Malcolm Plews witnessed the improvised concert by the Beatles on the roof of the Beatles's offices on Savile Row.

Messrs. Bennett and Plews were apprentices then. Now, they're statesmen of the Row.

[dopey]

Based on your description of what you are looking for, you should obviously seriously consider Dege because it looks like you are looking for the Robert Dailey/Degesilhouettte

Yeah, but the guy asked for soft. Dege is not soft. Lean, yes, but not soft.

I am not as familiar with the insides of most SR products as is manton, but as a Dege customer, I know their stuff moderately well. I am sure manton is correct that they are not “soft” at least compared to A&S and probably others, but I would like to make two points.

First, “not soft” does not mean uncomfortable. If the coat fits well at the shoulders collar and waist, the stiffness at the chest should not be very noticeable unless you are lying on your side or twisting and bending at the same time. That does not mean the distinction is unimportant — a stiffer chest certainly looks different and will feel a bit different as well.

Second, I have noticed that the stiffness of Dege’s work varies considerably. I have never discussed the subject with them, nor even done a careful analysis of the relative stiffness of the various coats they have made for me, but my casual observation is that the stiffness is related to the cloth used and perhaps the purpose of the garment. The most extreme examples are some suits I have made from a very light tropical worsted (my recollection is that they were 7.5 oz.). They have a rather stiff chestpiece the contours of which can easily be traced by running my hand over the lapels and down the coat front. I presume it is made that way to keep the coat front from collapsing. On the other hand, I have an 20oz tweed hacking jacket and I can’t really find the chestpiece if it is there. Most of my other suits are somewhere in between and I was surprised to find some strong support in a linen suit coat.

It is possible that the differences reflect the time they were made or the particular coatmaker they were sent to, but I doubt it. I suspect the cutter bundles whatever stuff he thinks is appropriate for the particular garment. For all I know, that may also be something you can specify with them.

The result, while probably stiffer than others on the row is certainly neither extreme nor constant.

[sam]

I too would be interested in the difference in silhouette and construction among: Dege, Poole, Kilgour, and Davies.

[Costi]

If I were you and I managed to define that “short list”, I would do the following experiment: walk into one of these shops and talk about myself a little (where I live, what I do) but nothing about the suit or the jacket I want to commission. Then I’d ask for cutter’s advice: what clothes would you see me into? First I would check to see if there is any relation between my own views and his suggestions (in case of discrepancy, I would think very hard if it’s not me that is wrong). Second, I’d pick one of his suggestions, I’d have my measures taken and just answer his questions with regard to fit, style etc. again without requiring anything in particular: if he asks none, then he probably doesn’t care much about the result and is about to do what’s easiest for him, regardless of my needs ; if he asks too many, he didn’t try to understand anything about me and he is insecure about his skills (fears and wants to avoid later complaints, as it would not be the first time he gets them) ; if he asks just those few questions that I feel prove he understood who I am and what I need, but also cares to suit my tastes, then he’s my cutter!

[Mark Seitelman]

I too would be interested in the difference in silhouette and construction among: Dege, Poole, Kilgour, and Davies.

They all use needles and thread.

I cannot speak for the others, but Davies can make either a softer or a stiffer suit. It's a conservative English suit, such as higher button stance and a definite waist.

Davies and the firms that it acquired have a background in uniforms and court dress. One of the firms that it acquired, Johns & Pegg, have the royal warrant for uniforms for Prince Phillip. Therefore, they can make it either built-up and stiff or less structured and soft.