The Shirt's Collar

[rguion]

"When a tie is fitted up into the collar, its points should be long enough to remain in contact with the shirt's body, regardless of how sharply the wearer turns his head." from Alan Flusser, Style and the Man

This has always been the case with my custom or MTM shirts, but I just received a sample shirt from a reputable CMT factory here in New Jersey where this is not the case. The points stay put (on the shirt body) most of the time, but come up all to readily with sharp or exaggerated movement. I recently received shirts from John Robert/Geneva where this does not happen, no matter what I do (some really beautiful collars by the way; the best I own). I'm curious to know whether this results from a poorly designed pattern, and also whether the fact that it is top fussed has anything to do with it.

Another wrinkle, literally. After just one washing, a few of the dreaded little bubbles we associate with top fussed collars have already appeared on one side of the collar. After pressing, they are hardly noticeable, but my guess is the worst is yet to come.

So where do I go from here with this company? They made up the shirt for me with shirting I got from TipTop for $115 (that is, $115 was their CMT charge). I was told that there is a four shirt minimum, but was allowed to just pay for the sample shirt, basically with the understanding that I would have three more shirts made once we took a look at how the sample worked for me. The thing is, I'm not sure I should even continue with them. I know I should give them a chance to address my concerns, but am not fully confident that they will be able to cut a better collar or if they are even interested considering all the other work they have.

[Costi]

It sounds like the fusible interlining used for your collar is not of the very best quality - the bubbles are but one symptom of a poor interlining. Another symptom is the tips of the collar curling upwards (if not now, that the shirt is new, probably after a few washes and ironings). But if the collar tips sit nicely on the chest and only raise when you move your head abruptly, it may be that the collarband is a bit too tight. You might also consider moving your head more gracefully, which would not only keep the collar in place but also give you an elegant air of composure
If everything else looks good with your shirt (fit before anything else, good stitching, nice buttonholes etc.) I think it would be worth telling them that you are interested in becoming a regular customer BUT there are a few items that need to be addressed in order for that to happen. Express your concerns and ask if there is anything they think they can do about them.
The bubbling of the collar is a serious quality problem and I think you should start with that, because there is no equivoque about it. Ask them if they can change the interlining (if not, you could even suggest providing your own, it doesn’t cost that much) and make a replacement collar for the sample shirt, so you could be ascertained that this won’t be a problem in the future. If they agree, ask for a tweak in the pattern so as to address the raising tips issue, too (if it is a pattern issue). If the answer is “no”, you shall have saved yourself a lot of trouble with a poor shirtmaker. But if the answer is “yes” it means they are honest and willing to please a client. Don’t be shy, you should let them know that you’re a demanding client that CAN be pleased, if they are willing to make a reasonable effort to this end.

[styleguy]

That's too bad. One should always buy bespoke shirts or custom made shirts
with swiss interlinings, what that means is non fused!
No bubbles with a non-fused interlining. I would look for a shirtmaker that you are comfortable with from an economical standpoint who offers hand-made bespoke shirts
that are non-fused. I hope this helps you.
Regards
The Real Bespoke!
www.marlonaustin.com

[Costi]

styleguy has very sound advice for you - but not the most economic, I'm afraid: good non-fusible interlining does indeed make for excellent collar and cuffs, but it is more difficult to work with. You should expect a different range of rates. If money is not an issue with you, then do go for it. But if you're looking for a moderately expensive way to get a better-than-RTW fitting shirt, then you must put up with certain things. Fused collars and cuffs CAN look decent and hold a good shape for a few years, provided good interlining is used and the fusing procedure is performed adequately.

[Mr JRM]

Pease excuse if this question is stupid but does "swiss" interlining = "non fused" interlining. ie we are not referring to interlining per swiss techniques per se. Thanks alot.

[Chris Rimby]

I think Alexander Kabbaz actually has a differing opinion on collar fusing. I believe I read that he thinks that if it's done right it's just fine. I think he uses fused collars on his own formal shirts.

[Alias]

Or maybe the collar is just too small.

[BjornH]

There is no excuse for the fusing to separate on the collar. This can happen to the cheapest shirts after repeated washings but any shirt should withstand a single wash. I would walk away and find another supplier.

Re the interlinings, the swiss ones are reputed to be the best, but they are not synonymous with a fused collar.

Björn

[E. Tage Larsen]

Dear Sir,

For what it's worth, Carl Goldberg (CEGO - Manhattan, not so far from New Jersey) recommended to me for my order an unfused collar and fused cuffs. I'm very happy with this combination.