I have been stressed lately and retail therapy would have been nice. I have such pent-up lust for certain brands, I can imagine some Harvard MBA trying to mine what must be a global demand for certain products. I guess this is the cachet that all brands seek. Here is a list of names that make me foam at the mouth:
Cordings: their web site is hopelessly inadequate, what about other goods? I have made several requests for sweaters only to be blown off.
William Evans: Come on, you can check your email once in a while....
Rubinacci: I would fly to London just to get a linen suit here, this is how lustful I am....
Marinella: I don't care about their ties, I want to see their other stuff. And that web site is from hunger.
Trickers: Oh Lord, they are so hard to deal with. Forget eBay and Pediwear, they have loads of shoes not on their web site or Pediwear, this is clear from eBay. And they are terrible correspondents.
Mantelassi: Their web site doesn't work, and Disco whatever doesn't have hardly anything. For the love of G-d, who sells their shoes?
Now Udeshi gets high praise and what do you know, his shirts are no where to be found.
Oh and Carmina Albaladejo, the Holy Grail!
Pent-up Demand
i agree 100% with you.
I have coded some website in the past for myself.
Most of the websites are loveless, noninformatic and hopelessly uninspired.
Herbert K.
I have coded some website in the past for myself.
Most of the websites are loveless, noninformatic and hopelessly uninspired.
Herbert K.
David:
Travel broadens the mind and lightens the wallet. That said, have you been tested for rabies? Foaming at the mouth isn't good.
I believe certain brands still feel that having a catalog cheapens them somewhat. H&K's catalog for their sale by mail certainly makes them seem more prosaic. Hermes' catalog is in the form of a glossy and extremely beautiful magazine.
During the dotcom boom, someone -- perhaps not with an MBA from Harvard -- tried to mine such demand by starting a luxury goods website featuring certain smaller designers and makers. Orders placed through the website would be transmitted directly to the merchants themselves for fulfillment. It was called bestselections.com and died; its name was bought by eluxury or some such as a redirect site. I believe there is still a perception that the greatest luxury is having the time -- more so than the money, that's more common nowadays -- to make it over to shops in person.
Why don't you fly to London for a suit from Rubinacci? They also do occasional bespoke visits to Paris, I believe? What would their having website change?
Who is William Evans?
I believe Andreyb mentioned recently that Cordings had updated their website. Have you checked it recently? I believe a lot of their merchandise is similar to that at Pakeman, with which you are familiar, I recall.
I think Marinella's site is rather nice. As their merchandise is rather timeless, a catalog or what not is almost pointless. Instead, may I recommend spending $50 or $100 and ordering the Marinella book? It has lots of pictures of Marinella silks, and some of their other accessories. And it's gorgeous. I can give you some Italian online bookstore urls for ordering it if you like.
www.bestofbritishshirts.com sells udeshi. Shirts, ties, cufflinks (I think).
If you want Albaladejo, why not go to Peter Eliot in New York? At the very least you could try to figure out your size. Otherwise, you are well known to the Paris shop.
Travel broadens the mind and lightens the wallet. That said, have you been tested for rabies? Foaming at the mouth isn't good.
I believe certain brands still feel that having a catalog cheapens them somewhat. H&K's catalog for their sale by mail certainly makes them seem more prosaic. Hermes' catalog is in the form of a glossy and extremely beautiful magazine.
During the dotcom boom, someone -- perhaps not with an MBA from Harvard -- tried to mine such demand by starting a luxury goods website featuring certain smaller designers and makers. Orders placed through the website would be transmitted directly to the merchants themselves for fulfillment. It was called bestselections.com and died; its name was bought by eluxury or some such as a redirect site. I believe there is still a perception that the greatest luxury is having the time -- more so than the money, that's more common nowadays -- to make it over to shops in person.
Why don't you fly to London for a suit from Rubinacci? They also do occasional bespoke visits to Paris, I believe? What would their having website change?
Who is William Evans?
I believe Andreyb mentioned recently that Cordings had updated their website. Have you checked it recently? I believe a lot of their merchandise is similar to that at Pakeman, with which you are familiar, I recall.
I think Marinella's site is rather nice. As their merchandise is rather timeless, a catalog or what not is almost pointless. Instead, may I recommend spending $50 or $100 and ordering the Marinella book? It has lots of pictures of Marinella silks, and some of their other accessories. And it's gorgeous. I can give you some Italian online bookstore urls for ordering it if you like.
www.bestofbritishshirts.com sells udeshi. Shirts, ties, cufflinks (I think).
If you want Albaladejo, why not go to Peter Eliot in New York? At the very least you could try to figure out your size. Otherwise, you are well known to the Paris shop.
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Guest
I think I am well-known as in face-on-the-wanted-poster-known, but that doesn't get Miguel to answer my emails.
Flying to London is not that bad an idea, and I might do that at some point. My wallet is empty for the forseeable future do to renovations on our new house.
William Evans are gunmakers who offer sporting goods like Purdey or Holland and Holland.
Cordings updated their web site but it has only a few things on it.
I wouldn't mind getting the Marinella book.
Flying to London is not that bad an idea, and I might do that at some point. My wallet is empty for the forseeable future do to renovations on our new house.
William Evans are gunmakers who offer sporting goods like Purdey or Holland and Holland.
Cordings updated their web site but it has only a few things on it.
I wouldn't mind getting the Marinella book.
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AlexanderKabbaz
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I believe certain brands still feel that having a catalog cheapens them somewhat.
With all due respect, RJMan, I do not agree either with the concept nor the veracity of the excuse for being sans catalog.
In the first place, the planet has turned into a global village due not in small measure to the internet. Now, from Japan to Jakarta, from New York to New Zealand, consumers are daily more aware of the awesome range of goods and services available in locales other than their own. Due to my web site and catalog, I have happily served new clients with my furnishings and accessories products from Australia to Turkey to Hong Kong ... even to a village in Germany not more than a two hour drive from Zimmerli headquarters itself! Consider that. It was easier for the client to order from me here in the U.S. than to shop in one of his local stores. Does that cheapen the Zimmerli, Pantherella, or Marcoliani brands? I think not. It merely offers greater accessibility.
Naturally, the catalog concept has no place in the bespoke world for how can one photograph something which before existing is but a figment in the mind of a potential client? One simply cannot.
In the second place, as far as being sans catalog and the real reason therefore? The real reason is cost. Catalogs are a major expense for a small firm. If Land's End prints a million catalogs and mails them, their cost per catalog is near the one dollar range. On the other end of the spectrum are micro-niche firms such as mine. My most recent (and largest) catalog of some 50 pages cost me in excess of $10 each to get to client's door. Can you imagine the dollar amount of per-catalog sales I have to generate to cover that astronomical cost? In the case of very small firms such as Kabbaz-Kelly, I can and do personally (either me or my wife, Joelle) offer the extreme degree of customer service necessary to keep clients returning time after time ... and thus my catalog becomes a small Kabbaz-Kelly store sitting on each client's reading desk.
Mid-size firms as many of those mentioned by Dr. Bresch, where all customer contact depends on generally poorly trained customer service employees, realize that their catalogs will usually be treated as throwaways and will therefore not amortize. In addition, there is the question of whether the merchandise quality is of a level which will spur the customer to shop a second time 'round. If you can't win repeat business, the catalog investment is in fact a waste of money.
In sum, to imply that photographing and publishing a ready-made product is to "cheapen" it is rather disingenuous once the true situation is exposed to the harsh light of day..
Alex:
I am not saying I agree that catalogs cheapen a brand. I was submitting it as a possible motivation on the part of some brands not to have one. On the other extreme, the Neimans Christmas catalog is a fetish object, and, particularly pre-Internet, the sort of catalogs one received was quite a socioeconomic status marker. Louis Vuitton, Berluti, Edward Green, Crockett & Jones and many others have catalogs. Most do not offer mail order through them but do have a large if not exhaustive selection of products therein. I confess there is particular charm in a -- forgive my saying it
--slightly wonky web site like your own, or like those lamented by Bresch, than in some ultra-flashy Flash horror with ultra-slick presentation and obfuscation.
Pax?
However, this thread, my first coffee and my lingering foggy hangover remind me that Trickers actually does have a catalog. I go to London tomorrow and can try to pick it up for the Bresch if it wants.
What exactly does the Bresch want from William Evans? Was that the shop with a picture entitled "Flushed Bird", of a blushing Sloane caught in flagrante in the bush?
David, it really appears that you would greatly benefit being able to walk into and between these shops, most of which are in London. That's the only way you'd be able to satisfy your curiosity, I'm afraid. Besides, many of these shops themselves have wonderful atmospheres.
I am not saying I agree that catalogs cheapen a brand. I was submitting it as a possible motivation on the part of some brands not to have one. On the other extreme, the Neimans Christmas catalog is a fetish object, and, particularly pre-Internet, the sort of catalogs one received was quite a socioeconomic status marker. Louis Vuitton, Berluti, Edward Green, Crockett & Jones and many others have catalogs. Most do not offer mail order through them but do have a large if not exhaustive selection of products therein. I confess there is particular charm in a -- forgive my saying it
--slightly wonky web site like your own, or like those lamented by Bresch, than in some ultra-flashy Flash horror with ultra-slick presentation and obfuscation.Pax?
However, this thread, my first coffee and my lingering foggy hangover remind me that Trickers actually does have a catalog. I go to London tomorrow and can try to pick it up for the Bresch if it wants.
What exactly does the Bresch want from William Evans? Was that the shop with a picture entitled "Flushed Bird", of a blushing Sloane caught in flagrante in the bush?
David, it really appears that you would greatly benefit being able to walk into and between these shops, most of which are in London. That's the only way you'd be able to satisfy your curiosity, I'm afraid. Besides, many of these shops themselves have wonderful atmospheres.
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BirdofSydney
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RJ, how might one go about acquiring such a thing? I'd be very keen.rjman wrote:Hermes' catalog is in the form of a glossy and extremely beautiful magazine.
As for my own unrequited loves (lusts?) at the moment, Arnys ties after Mr. Alden's post. And more Leonard, always.
Best,
Eden
Knowing some of these shops, and the shortcomings of their service offering (as opposed to their actual goods), I would strongly suggest to visit in person, or at least the use of a trusted and reliable agent (surely, you must have a friend or two in London?). Anything else reeks of disappointment.
Websites are a nightmare.
Obvioulsy, a bespoke business cannot sell via the web, because it requires the client to be present (all compromises on this point require the client to be both patient and willing to pick up the pieces when (not if) it goes utterly catastrophically wrong).
Even non-bespoke goods are difficult, and most shops utterly fail to create sites that reflect the complexity of available options, allow for clear and easy ordering, and present the product to its best advantage. I would suggest better no e-commerce at all than badly designed sites that fail both the client and the business.
Thirdly, the purely informational ones. And again, most of these are self obsessed flash monsters, that provide little useful information and a maximum of gimmickry. They drive their customers mad. Only recently did I come across one (I think it was Arnys) that could not be closed (the window just stayed open). CTRL ALT DEL was the solution, but did anybody actually consider how annoyed a no longer potential customer is after that?
A website must meet its objectives. Waht are these? Have they been formulated with the customer in mind? Quite a few sites never seemd to have asked these questions.
Finally, those businesses that decide to have no web presence, it may be a lost opportunity, but it also may be completely legitimate. If the business relies on geographically close, knowledgeable clients, and is running at or close to full capacity (do not forget, skilled craftsmen are often a very limitted resource), why spend the money on an internet presence that will generate little additional turnover and maximum hassle. For example, if I consider a tailor I use in Prague, I definitely do not want him to waste his limited time on the net while he hardly manages to finish his clients' orders. He fully agrees, by the way.
So my advice would be, spend more money travelling and less on internet purchases that will soon grace the homeless in Philadelphia because they failed to please you.
Websites are a nightmare.
Obvioulsy, a bespoke business cannot sell via the web, because it requires the client to be present (all compromises on this point require the client to be both patient and willing to pick up the pieces when (not if) it goes utterly catastrophically wrong).
Even non-bespoke goods are difficult, and most shops utterly fail to create sites that reflect the complexity of available options, allow for clear and easy ordering, and present the product to its best advantage. I would suggest better no e-commerce at all than badly designed sites that fail both the client and the business.
Thirdly, the purely informational ones. And again, most of these are self obsessed flash monsters, that provide little useful information and a maximum of gimmickry. They drive their customers mad. Only recently did I come across one (I think it was Arnys) that could not be closed (the window just stayed open). CTRL ALT DEL was the solution, but did anybody actually consider how annoyed a no longer potential customer is after that?
A website must meet its objectives. Waht are these? Have they been formulated with the customer in mind? Quite a few sites never seemd to have asked these questions.
Finally, those businesses that decide to have no web presence, it may be a lost opportunity, but it also may be completely legitimate. If the business relies on geographically close, knowledgeable clients, and is running at or close to full capacity (do not forget, skilled craftsmen are often a very limitted resource), why spend the money on an internet presence that will generate little additional turnover and maximum hassle. For example, if I consider a tailor I use in Prague, I definitely do not want him to waste his limited time on the net while he hardly manages to finish his clients' orders. He fully agrees, by the way.
So my advice would be, spend more money travelling and less on internet purchases that will soon grace the homeless in Philadelphia because they failed to please you.
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Guest
First of all, I did not lament the absence of catalogues as some sort of moral ommission. If a firm doesn't want either web site or catalogue, fine. But I have a right , as the Bresch, to complain.
RJMan, the Bresch would love you to pick up a catalogue, but if you do, with the Dandy magazines the favors the Bresch owes you will add up...
I don't want you all to take this the wrong way, but AK's dysfunctional site is close to the ideal for me. Outdated copy aside, dead links, etc, when you go to the important parts (his socks and underwear) everything is admirably clear and making orders is easy. The reason I do not mention shirts is because as people have pointed out, you can't have a catalogue of bespoke items and that is fine.
But even bespoke devotes such as ourselves need RTW things (like socks, shoes, the occasional tattersal shirt, windcheaters). Plus, some catalogues inspire. There are not many "tastes" I would be inspired by. Arnys, Marinella, Rubinacci, Cordings, Battistioni, Charvet, anything-Logsdail-cares-to-offer, I would be very interested in what these firms are proposing any given season.
By the way, Arnys has a very nice catalogue that they will send you promptly if you request it. Alden's legitimate criticisms aside (that it is more for poseurs than an authentic cultural statement), it is very interesting.
RJMan, the Bresch would love you to pick up a catalogue, but if you do, with the Dandy magazines the favors the Bresch owes you will add up...
I don't want you all to take this the wrong way, but AK's dysfunctional site is close to the ideal for me. Outdated copy aside, dead links, etc, when you go to the important parts (his socks and underwear) everything is admirably clear and making orders is easy. The reason I do not mention shirts is because as people have pointed out, you can't have a catalogue of bespoke items and that is fine.
But even bespoke devotes such as ourselves need RTW things (like socks, shoes, the occasional tattersal shirt, windcheaters). Plus, some catalogues inspire. There are not many "tastes" I would be inspired by. Arnys, Marinella, Rubinacci, Cordings, Battistioni, Charvet, anything-Logsdail-cares-to-offer, I would be very interested in what these firms are proposing any given season.
By the way, Arnys has a very nice catalogue that they will send you promptly if you request it. Alden's legitimate criticisms aside (that it is more for poseurs than an authentic cultural statement), it is very interesting.
Well, my meds _are_ running out... Have they invented an "anti-shopping" pill?brescd01 wrote:RJMan, the Bresch would love you to pick up a catalogue, but if you do, with the Dandy magazines the favors the Bresch owes you will add up...
Here are links for purchasing the Marinella book, new. There are wide variations in price:
http://www.internetbookshop.it/ser/serd ... 8837029217
http://www.libreriauniversitaria.it/BIT ... Napoli.htm
http://www.liberonweb.com/asp/libro.asp?ISBN=8837029233
The last is by far the cheapest, not sure why. Mine came quickly, well shipped. Make sure it is the English-language one unless you are an Italian speaker.
Re getting an Hermes catalog. It's called "Le Monde d'Hermes" and it is available at Hermes shops, although there is supposedly a 10 euro charge for it. I've never been charged, and if you ask nicely or make a purchase they're generally happy to give a copy if they have one in stock. The ads inside are amusing -- almost all of them are for companies owned by Hermes -- Puiforcat, Saint Louis, Lobb Paris...
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AlexanderKabbaz
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No guerre intended. Pax of course. I didn't think you were advocating that catalogs cheapen a brand. I know of brands which use this as an excuse for foregoing a catalog.Originally posted by RJ's cat
Alex:
I am not saying I agree that catalogs cheapen a brand. I was submitting it as a possible motivation on the part of some brands not to have one. On the other extreme, the Neimans Christmas catalog is a fetish object, and, particularly pre-Internet, the sort of catalogs one received was quite a socioeconomic status marker. Louis Vuitton, Berluti, Edward Green, Crockett & Jones and many others have catalogs. Most do not offer mail order through them but do have a large if not exhaustive selection of products therein. I confess there is particular charm in a -- forgive my saying it --slightly wonky web site like your own, or like those lamented by Bresch, than in some ultra-flashy Flash horror with ultra-slick presentation and obfuscation.
Pax?
And as David noted, my wonky (love it!) web site turns completely UnWonky when one goes to the e-commerce pages. Nothing but the complete Pantherella and Zimmerli lines; straightforward and easy ordering.
Face it, my wonky shirtmaking is wonkily well reflected by the bespoke shirt pages of my website.
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Mark Seitelman
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Dear Dr. B,
I think that you need some therapy, i.e., a day of shopping. Internet or mail order will not do.
Come to NYC and visit some of the merchants of luxury gulch, such as Venanzi (for accessories, Jay Walter, and Green shoes), Oxxford (the new Radcliff model and its new, unstructured coat for the fall), Turnbull (go to Crockett & Jones boutique), Jay Kos, and Herzfeld. I also recommend a walk to the two Peter Elliot stores.
I think that you need some therapy, i.e., a day of shopping. Internet or mail order will not do.
Come to NYC and visit some of the merchants of luxury gulch, such as Venanzi (for accessories, Jay Walter, and Green shoes), Oxxford (the new Radcliff model and its new, unstructured coat for the fall), Turnbull (go to Crockett & Jones boutique), Jay Kos, and Herzfeld. I also recommend a walk to the two Peter Elliot stores.
I suspect what we have here is more a problem of Pent-up Bresch than of Pent-up Demand. A firsthand visit is the only way you will get the experience you want with makers like Cordings and Trickers. Speaking of which, I got your Trickers catalog on Monday. They had a sign in the window advertising their bespoke service from 800 pounds; their bootmaker comes on certain days. I had literature on that, but I'm holding onto it.
My London jaunt was good until the moment the crap hit the fan at work and I had to blow off Udeshi (stellar ties, stellar guy) and then stand up bengal-stripe for coffee, for which I am still abjectly sorry. This is how I can empathize with the Bresch in that my golden handcuffs lifestyle means I can never have a real vacation or time safely to travel elsewhere for my sartorial edification. Lots of time at the printer later, I am still trying to edit a document and fighting off a hopefully non-bacterial lump in my throat from running around in the rain. However, Michael will be glad to know I am no longer sans-papiers -- I picked up my titre de sejour on the very last day I could (yesterday) and look forward to demonstrating, publicly urinating and working 35 hours. A day.
I saw Tony G at EG for a fitting on my shoes -- he's done a magnificent chisel toe on some brogued elastic slip-ons, with a fantastic medallion and even put on the poncey detailing I asked him to.
I saw Poole for my final alpaca tweed coat fitting. Somehow it felt boxier than my coats from Baron Le Chat Mort. Hmph. The jacket was also pulling slightly, which surprised me at this late stage.
RJ was a disappointment -- snotty staff in a sterile atmosphere, no OTC socks even though they sell them at Selfridges.
Udeshi was a great person to talk to and it was great to meet him. He generously let me plug away on my Blackberry as the evil message came right as he greeted me into his shop. I think his eye for design and for quality is excellent. I picked up a 7-fold tie for now, it's got an appropriately edgy yet classic feel to it -- sharp but beautiful. Bravo. I picked up a catalog from him, too, but you're not getting it.
My London jaunt was good until the moment the crap hit the fan at work and I had to blow off Udeshi (stellar ties, stellar guy) and then stand up bengal-stripe for coffee, for which I am still abjectly sorry. This is how I can empathize with the Bresch in that my golden handcuffs lifestyle means I can never have a real vacation or time safely to travel elsewhere for my sartorial edification. Lots of time at the printer later, I am still trying to edit a document and fighting off a hopefully non-bacterial lump in my throat from running around in the rain. However, Michael will be glad to know I am no longer sans-papiers -- I picked up my titre de sejour on the very last day I could (yesterday) and look forward to demonstrating, publicly urinating and working 35 hours. A day.
I saw Tony G at EG for a fitting on my shoes -- he's done a magnificent chisel toe on some brogued elastic slip-ons, with a fantastic medallion and even put on the poncey detailing I asked him to.
I saw Poole for my final alpaca tweed coat fitting. Somehow it felt boxier than my coats from Baron Le Chat Mort. Hmph. The jacket was also pulling slightly, which surprised me at this late stage.
RJ was a disappointment -- snotty staff in a sterile atmosphere, no OTC socks even though they sell them at Selfridges.
Udeshi was a great person to talk to and it was great to meet him. He generously let me plug away on my Blackberry as the evil message came right as he greeted me into his shop. I think his eye for design and for quality is excellent. I picked up a 7-fold tie for now, it's got an appropriately edgy yet classic feel to it -- sharp but beautiful. Bravo. I picked up a catalog from him, too, but you're not getting it.
Last edited by rjman on Wed May 10, 2006 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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tteplitzmd
I am familiar with many of the shops mentioned. I rarely buy from them for several reasons:
First, most shops violate Teplitz' rule for purchasing luxury goods: never buy from someone who knows less than you do about the goods. Second, most of these stores are simply retailers and not makers. Why buy a Belseta jacket at Herzfeld when Davide Cenci has consistent ttwice a year sales of many of the same items? Cordings is pleasant to look at, as is Trickers, but I doubt they are the only sources for the type of goods sold.
I have never bought anything except on sale at Peter Elliot. Unless you have a very, very knowledgable sales person at these shops, being "helped" is detrimental in my opinion. I do prefer catalog and internet sales for simplicity, time, and my own dislike of "transactions" where I feel I am paying for help and overhead I don't really like.
Finally, on the subject of 'Why Catalogs' I have to admit to a fondnetss for the reference aspects, design, photos, etc., in some of the catalogs. I am sure there are those who have the complete set of Lobb catalogs and derive much enjoyment from that. Some of us like to do our own homework and formulate our own ideas for design or purchase. I like catalogs in this regard. That said, if I find a very knowledgeable maker or sales person, I value that authority very much. I have learned the most about cloth from the mills or woolen merchants, for example. Here, swatches are my archive as opposed to catalogs.
First, most shops violate Teplitz' rule for purchasing luxury goods: never buy from someone who knows less than you do about the goods. Second, most of these stores are simply retailers and not makers. Why buy a Belseta jacket at Herzfeld when Davide Cenci has consistent ttwice a year sales of many of the same items? Cordings is pleasant to look at, as is Trickers, but I doubt they are the only sources for the type of goods sold.
I have never bought anything except on sale at Peter Elliot. Unless you have a very, very knowledgable sales person at these shops, being "helped" is detrimental in my opinion. I do prefer catalog and internet sales for simplicity, time, and my own dislike of "transactions" where I feel I am paying for help and overhead I don't really like.
Finally, on the subject of 'Why Catalogs' I have to admit to a fondnetss for the reference aspects, design, photos, etc., in some of the catalogs. I am sure there are those who have the complete set of Lobb catalogs and derive much enjoyment from that. Some of us like to do our own homework and formulate our own ideas for design or purchase. I like catalogs in this regard. That said, if I find a very knowledgeable maker or sales person, I value that authority very much. I have learned the most about cloth from the mills or woolen merchants, for example. Here, swatches are my archive as opposed to catalogs.
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