Loden / Making of + some History (as promised)
Gentleman
As i promise in my introduction thread i now give you some information about the Loden.
Here in Austria Loden is a very common fabric used for many kind of clothes.
Historicaly Loden was used by the farmers in the alpine Regions of Austria and Bavaria.
First it wa used as a very weather and water restistant fabric for Coats,Trousers and Jackets worn by forest workers,hunters,farmers.
Under the Austrian Archduke Johann, wich was a avid hunter,Loden became very popular.
Since then there is a special kind of Loden called "Erzherzog Johann Loden" because he was the first of the aristrocrats wich wore this fabric.
In this time Loden was something for the more poorer population in Austria.
When the Archduke startet to wear this kind of cloth everyone wants to have it.
Basically Loden in Austria is used for so called "Trachten".This is comparable to the scottish highland dress.But we dont wear kilts and sporrans in Austria
In Austria we call it "Trachtenanzug" (Trachten suit):
please click the picture to see it bigger.
This is a typical Trachen suit or as we called it "Steireranzug" because this style was developed in Styria.
Every region in Austria have different styles of suits and colors. I will soon post a picture of mine then u can see the different.
Now to the making of Loden. I have to confess that i cant translate all of the technical terms by myselfe. So i went to wikipedia and came up with this explanation:
Felt is a non-woven cloth that is produced by matting, condensing and pressing fibers that form the structure of the fabric. In the process of feltmaking, wool fibers shrink and come together to form a dense mat when subjected to heat, friction and a change of alkalinity.
Felt is the oldest form of fabric known to man. It predates weaving and knitting, although there is archaelogical evidence from the British museum that the first known thread was made by winding vegetable fibres on the thigh. Felt dates back to at least 6,500 BC where remains were found in Turkey. Highly sophisticated felted artifacts were found preserved in permafrost in a tomb in Siberia and dated to 600 AD.
Many cultures have legends as to the origins of feltmaking. The story of Saint Clement and Saint Christopher relates that while fleeing from persecution, the men packed their sandals with wool to prevent blisters. At the end of their journey, the movement and sweat had turned the wool into felt socks. It is said that Noah's Ark was lined with fleece and the combination of urine and the trampling animals left behind a felted wool carpet. Felt is now widely used as a medium for expression in textile art as well as design, where it has significance as an ecological textile.
Felt is made by a process called wet felting, where the natural wool fibre is stimulated by friction and lubricated by moisture (usually water), and the fibres move at a 90 degree angle towards the friction source and then away again, in effect making little "tacking" stitches. Only 5% of the fibres are active at any one moment, but the process is continual, and so different 'sets' of fibres become activated and then deactivated in the continual process.
This "wet" process utilises the inherent nature of wool and other animal hairs, because the hairs have scales on them which are directional. The hairs also have kinks in them, and this combination of scales (like the structure of a pine cone) are what react to the stimulation of friction and cause the phenomenon of felting. It tends to work well only with woolen fibres as their scales, when aggravated, bond together to form a cloth.
Knitted woollen garments which shrink in a hot machine wash can be said to have felted — an example of how the fibres bond together when combined with the movement of the washing machine, the heat of the water, and the addition of soap. Therefore, woolen clothes should only be hand-washed or machine-washed in cold water.
Cheaper felt is usually man-made. Man-made felt, if made using the wet method, has a minimum of 30% of wool fibres combined with other manmade fibres. This is the minimum required to hold a fabric together with the fibres alone. It would be difficult to achieve a stable fabric by hand at this ratio. All other wholly man-made felts are actually needle-felts.
Needle-felt is a man-made form created by the use of barbed needles forcing groups of fibres through a web of carded fibres to create a non woven fabric structure. This is not true felt.
Loden is a type of felt originally worn in the Alpine regions, which has recently gained worldwide acceptance as a textile for fine and durable clothing.
A very famous Loden producer in Austria is here: (available in english)
http://www.loden-steiner.at/lodensteiner/index.html
There i buy most of my Loden fabrics. He has a great range of colours and weights.
From really rough heavy weights to light weight flanell like types.
I use the lighter Loden as alternative to flanell because here in Austria its almost impossible to get good english flanell.
So i hope you get a little idea what Loden is.
If you have any question i will be happy to answer them as far as i can !
Herbert K.
edit:
In aonther post i saw even the duke of windsor wear a Trachten Suit:
http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/vie ... php?t=4923
As i promise in my introduction thread i now give you some information about the Loden.
Here in Austria Loden is a very common fabric used for many kind of clothes.
Historicaly Loden was used by the farmers in the alpine Regions of Austria and Bavaria.
First it wa used as a very weather and water restistant fabric for Coats,Trousers and Jackets worn by forest workers,hunters,farmers.
Under the Austrian Archduke Johann, wich was a avid hunter,Loden became very popular.
Since then there is a special kind of Loden called "Erzherzog Johann Loden" because he was the first of the aristrocrats wich wore this fabric.
In this time Loden was something for the more poorer population in Austria.
When the Archduke startet to wear this kind of cloth everyone wants to have it.
Basically Loden in Austria is used for so called "Trachten".This is comparable to the scottish highland dress.But we dont wear kilts and sporrans in Austria
In Austria we call it "Trachtenanzug" (Trachten suit):
please click the picture to see it bigger.
This is a typical Trachen suit or as we called it "Steireranzug" because this style was developed in Styria.
Every region in Austria have different styles of suits and colors. I will soon post a picture of mine then u can see the different.
Now to the making of Loden. I have to confess that i cant translate all of the technical terms by myselfe. So i went to wikipedia and came up with this explanation:
Felt is a non-woven cloth that is produced by matting, condensing and pressing fibers that form the structure of the fabric. In the process of feltmaking, wool fibers shrink and come together to form a dense mat when subjected to heat, friction and a change of alkalinity.
Felt is the oldest form of fabric known to man. It predates weaving and knitting, although there is archaelogical evidence from the British museum that the first known thread was made by winding vegetable fibres on the thigh. Felt dates back to at least 6,500 BC where remains were found in Turkey. Highly sophisticated felted artifacts were found preserved in permafrost in a tomb in Siberia and dated to 600 AD.
Many cultures have legends as to the origins of feltmaking. The story of Saint Clement and Saint Christopher relates that while fleeing from persecution, the men packed their sandals with wool to prevent blisters. At the end of their journey, the movement and sweat had turned the wool into felt socks. It is said that Noah's Ark was lined with fleece and the combination of urine and the trampling animals left behind a felted wool carpet. Felt is now widely used as a medium for expression in textile art as well as design, where it has significance as an ecological textile.
Felt is made by a process called wet felting, where the natural wool fibre is stimulated by friction and lubricated by moisture (usually water), and the fibres move at a 90 degree angle towards the friction source and then away again, in effect making little "tacking" stitches. Only 5% of the fibres are active at any one moment, but the process is continual, and so different 'sets' of fibres become activated and then deactivated in the continual process.
This "wet" process utilises the inherent nature of wool and other animal hairs, because the hairs have scales on them which are directional. The hairs also have kinks in them, and this combination of scales (like the structure of a pine cone) are what react to the stimulation of friction and cause the phenomenon of felting. It tends to work well only with woolen fibres as their scales, when aggravated, bond together to form a cloth.
Knitted woollen garments which shrink in a hot machine wash can be said to have felted — an example of how the fibres bond together when combined with the movement of the washing machine, the heat of the water, and the addition of soap. Therefore, woolen clothes should only be hand-washed or machine-washed in cold water.
Cheaper felt is usually man-made. Man-made felt, if made using the wet method, has a minimum of 30% of wool fibres combined with other manmade fibres. This is the minimum required to hold a fabric together with the fibres alone. It would be difficult to achieve a stable fabric by hand at this ratio. All other wholly man-made felts are actually needle-felts.
Needle-felt is a man-made form created by the use of barbed needles forcing groups of fibres through a web of carded fibres to create a non woven fabric structure. This is not true felt.
Loden is a type of felt originally worn in the Alpine regions, which has recently gained worldwide acceptance as a textile for fine and durable clothing.
A very famous Loden producer in Austria is here: (available in english)
http://www.loden-steiner.at/lodensteiner/index.html
There i buy most of my Loden fabrics. He has a great range of colours and weights.
From really rough heavy weights to light weight flanell like types.
I use the lighter Loden as alternative to flanell because here in Austria its almost impossible to get good english flanell.
So i hope you get a little idea what Loden is.
If you have any question i will be happy to answer them as far as i can !
Herbert K.
edit:
In aonther post i saw even the duke of windsor wear a Trachten Suit:
http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/vie ... php?t=4923
Last edited by Herbert on Wed May 03, 2006 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Herbert, thank you very much for this information. As you have proven, you are already a very helpful member of the forum. Also, thanks for the link.
James
James
Mr. James
Thank you for the kind reply. I keep my promises and finally so glad i found the LL.
And soon i will post a picture with me in a Loden suit.
Herbert K.
Thank you for the kind reply. I keep my promises and finally so glad i found the LL.
And soon i will post a picture with me in a Loden suit.
Herbert K.
I own a Schladminger since years...i woulld never give it back...even if it´s like you wear a stone
Very interesting post. Thank you.
Since the Felt is pressed and non-woven how does it wear compared to a Tweed, especially in the elbows, seat and knees?
What is the range of weights for Loden Felt?
Since the Felt is pressed and non-woven how does it wear compared to a Tweed, especially in the elbows, seat and knees?
What is the range of weights for Loden Felt?
Or to get to the sub-text behind that question: is it only suitable for outerwear and Austrian costume, or can it be made into a lounge suit or sport jacket, as flannel or tweed would be?
As a fellow Austrian I may jump in on this. Yes, Loden is often made into jackets that are to be worn with cords or flannel trousers just like a tweed jacket and worn in the same context. In Herbert`s area (Upper Austria) you might even see lawyers in court sporting them.Or to get to the sub-text behind that question: is it only suitable for outerwear and Austrian costume, or can it be made into a lounge suit or sport jacket, as flannel or tweed would be?
They usually look like those:
http://www.loden-plankl.at/deutsch/kollektion/index.htm
Ps: I also had a similar jacket made for me some years ago but I only use it for non-business (mostly outdoor) occasions (just like a Tweed jacket) as in the Tyrol where I live they are not suitable for business wear.
Thank you Richard for jumping in
I agree with Richard. You can also make a suit out of Loden. It will look very close to tweed and is a very resitant fabrick.
Non wrinkling (almost)
And will last forever (almost)
@ Richard :
Can you send me an email? I have send you a message here on the board..
Herbert K.
I agree with Richard. You can also make a suit out of Loden. It will look very close to tweed and is a very resitant fabrick.
Non wrinkling (almost)
And will last forever (almost)
@ Richard :
Can you send me an email? I have send you a message here on the board..
Herbert K.
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Very interesting thread, Herbert; thank you. Can you say how melton cloth relates to felt (and perhaps Loden)? Is melton cloth a form of felt? What are its distinguishing characteristics?
Sorry for asking
what you mean with melton cloth.
I can describe how loden feels but i dont know what you mean with meton.
Herbert K.
what you mean with melton cloth.
I can describe how loden feels but i dont know what you mean with meton.
Herbert K.
Herbert,
I spent several weeks in Austria last year and enjoyed it immensely. From your post I understand Loden to mean the fabric itself. One of the terms, I heard many times was "Loden green." Does this term refer to a particular shade of green? Do you know the reason for the color? Forest green? A color of a particular family? Just tradition?
Thanks.
George
gng8
I spent several weeks in Austria last year and enjoyed it immensely. From your post I understand Loden to mean the fabric itself. One of the terms, I heard many times was "Loden green." Does this term refer to a particular shade of green? Do you know the reason for the color? Forest green? A color of a particular family? Just tradition?
Thanks.
George
gng8
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I have some Robert Noble tweed fabrics that could be tighter, but I love the colour, rust with a pale green and mustard windowpane. I am thinking of washing these in one of those larger washers in the laundromat with soap and tennis balls at the hottest temp. The soap, and the beating with the tennis balls should Lodenize the fabric. Would this Lodenize/felt the fabric? Then I take it to my tailor to make suit.
I would be grateful for any advice.
Thanks
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I would be grateful for any advice.
Thanks
-
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- Joined: Fri Sep 30, 2005 5:23 pm
- Location: Vancouver
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I guess it's not referred to that in Austria, but a popular processed wool fabric in England and North America is referred to as melton. It looks and feels much like the way you've described loden, and I was wondering whether it is basically the same thing or another kind of unwoven compressed wool product--perhaps even a blend. Does anyone else know the answer to this?Herbert wrote:Sorry for asking
what you mean with melton cloth.
I can describe how loden feels but i dont know what you mean with meton..
If I remember correctly melton is more akin to loden's cousin, walk. Melton and walk are made by felting a woven cloth. Loden is unwoven.SouthPender wrote:I guess it's not referred to that in Austria, but a popular processed wool fabric in England and North America is referred to as melton. It looks and feels much like the way you've described loden, and I was wondering whether it is basically the same thing or another kind of unwoven compressed wool product--perhaps even a blend. Does anyone else know the answer to this?
Aus
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